I've been participating in a small discussion with a friend of mine from AIM, Jeff Goins. He's the editor of Wrecked For the Ordinary, an online magazine. He started talking about church and it has led to some interesting posts and comments.

If you'd like to catch up on the discussion, read the following blogs (if you don't have an hour to burn, just read the ones with the asterisks):

1. What's Wrong With Church - Me*
   
2. What is Church to You?
   
3. Is Church an Experience?*
   
4. What do you do when church disappoints you?*

5. Can Church Be More Than a Social Club?
   
6. What If Church Wasn't About What You Got Out of It?*
   
7. Sunday School Unscripted* - this is by Steve Basden
   

Jeff,

Regarding the church blogs you've been doing; I really like them. I'm glad people are actually talking about this stuff and I hope the conversation continues.

I've reread my comments on the "What to do if Church disappoints you" blog and I hope they didn't come off as too harsh. However, on my second reading, I was concerned that they did.

I was afraid that it appeared that I was insulting the commenter when I said "…(supposed) man…" You know how some preachers have a habit of telling stories in their sermons about people that never really existed? This is what I was talking about. Yes, there are people who go to church and see hypocrites everywhere, but the one I was talking about was not real. Does this make sense? If necessary, please convey my apologies.

As for Clint's comments; I'd really like to know what the heck he's talking about. I hope he responds.

I'd like to add some more comments, but wanted to run it by you first. I don't want to foster animosity or cause division - any more than I may have already.

I thought the guy who wrote the article on "What if it's not about you" was spot on. I've been burned by the church also (definitely not on his level). I watched my parents get relegated to unimportant "what can we find them to do so they won't embarrass us" kind of roles in church (my father knew more about the Bible than most of the people in my church; he just wasn't cool, rich, or good-looking). The pastor that counseled my wife and me before we were married had an affair with his secretary and left the profession. He's the guy that taught me how to avoid infidelity…

Yes, the church is a place where one should be safe; where one should be able to open up about sin, go for help, worship God, offer assistance, and break bread with like-minded people. As I mentioned in a previous comment, in my church, they actually argue about the decibel level of the music. They don't say, "It's too loud." They say, "The decibels are too high. Keep them below X." (I don't know the actual number and REFUSE to get involved.) They complain that the pastor says inappropriate/controversial things (he does). They leave when things don't go their way. People say "we need to practice our faith" and, when I tell them about opportunities to serve, tell me that they have a function planned with their Sunday School class that weekend (Shoot me now!) or say that they haven't been called to do that.

But sometimes they are brilliant at the whole church thing. For instance, two weeks ago, my friend Judi Redmon died after fighting colon cancer for four months. I went to the hospital at 10:00 PM on a weeknight to check on her husband, Jay, and there were ten people there with him. These are people who had jobs to go to the next day and kids at home in bed. Every time I went, there were never fewer than five people from our church there with Jay - and I'm not talking about the pastors, I'm talking about lay people.

I got a call last night from my friend Jake. He had flown to San Diego to help his wife get back home after she broke her hip (she is 32 and has cancer) but last night she was having emergency surgery because of cancer on her spine. I called about four people that I knew would get the word out and within thirty minutes people were calling ME to see if I had gotten the word. I know that someone is watching their kids and dog and that someone else is taking care of their house. When they get home, they'll have to fend off offers for help. That's a powerful aspect of church.

Have you ever been watching the news about some horrible thing happening and the reporters get some person on screen saying "I didn't think it could happen here/to me/whatever?" I always think "what makes you so special, that you get avoid pain or disappointment?" OK, I'm usually less eloquent, but you get my point. That's how I feel many times about people who talk about getting hurt at or by the church. Getting hurt by the church doesn't make one special; it makes you part of the club. Now, what are you going to do about it; fix your eyes on you or fix your eyes on Jesus?