God can’t look on sin…For some reason, I’ve been hearing this a lot lately, especially in reference to Jesus’s words on the cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” The next thing people usually say is “God turned away from Jesus” or something like that.
I would like to put this to you for help.
Where does it say this in the Bible? I’m sure that lots of really smart theological types think that God
can’t look on sin and that he turned away from Jesus on the cross, but I
want to know what Scripture says about this issue.
can’t look on sin and that he turned away from Jesus on the cross, but I
want to know what Scripture says about this issue.
Please believe me when I say that I am not trying to be rude or confrontational. One thing I don’t like about this medium of communication is that it is impossible to convey what one truly means as we read so much from body language and such.
Rest assured, I do have an opinion on this subject, but I’ll hold off on that for now. Please let me know what you think in the comments. Please back what you say with Scripture references.
Be nice.
Isaiah 59:2… But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you so that he cannot hear.” (from memory so it may be off a smidge)
Nickie, the Lord could see them, He always knows where we are. But it is not important for God to see us as it is important to bring about conviction in the heart of someone. I have looked right into the eyes of many and asked “where are you? where have you gone?” at the right time, they can begin ti find themself. It is of no good to either God or ourself that He prove He can see us. We have to be brought to see ourself, and where our choices have brought us.
Nickie Jo, I do not know if you read this again, but more specifically to help see as to Gen 4:9, remember the Lord wants to raise us up. We are used to the lazy, user friendly, whining American churches, that are in big disobedience to God. Notice how rare it is that any leaders are discipling anyone. The focus is more on what their denominational word is rather than the word of God. Jesus ordered us to disciple. Making a believer of someone is not discipling. I say this to lead into this: we do nto see the obvious in God’s word because we are spending our time in disobedient ministries. God is ALWAYS going to prod us to reveal ourself. What good is it to you little child if you do not train them to notice themselves, where they have wandered off to?If you are always “finding ” them, you have not raised your child, you have stunted their growth. God knew where Abel was, what had happened. He tries to CONVICT our hearts. Perhaps under His breath He said, “OMG. so you are going to do the ‘lets hide from God’ thing eh? ok I will [play….errrr ADAM….EVE,…where fore art thouest?” I can’t see you…..lol…gee you hide so well, I thinkl I am lost, oh Adam I am scared it is getting dark…..the street lights have not come on yet….BUT seriously God gives every indication clearly, He puts it to US. Just because we know the answer, what good does it do to always tell someone? Sometimes a person does something and their mind puts in a subconscious denial. God wants us to see clearly, what we have done so we can grow from that place recognize, He said confession is good, but we cannot confess what we do not owe up to, we cannot give to Him what we do not own
The words from Habakkuk can be defanged more simply, because the NASB translation can be shown to be correct. The word translated “look upon” in Hab.1:13 used is “nabat”. Just look up the definition in Strong’s.
“Strong’s #5027: nabat (pronounced naw-bat’)
a primitive root; to scan, i.e. look intently at; by implication, to regard with pleasure, favor or care:–(cause to) behold, consider, look (down), regard, have respect, see”
If you read through the Old Testament, it becomes apparent that God will not accept a sacrifice, for atonement of sin or any other reason, unless it is without blemish.
On the Day of Atonement, the priest does put his hands on a goat’s head to fill it with the sins of the nation and he then . . . let’s it run free into the wilderness! A second goat, who is without blemish, is then sacrificedd.
<>
Huge theological statements that have as their source one verse, whose translation is highly speculative and contradicted by other very clear statements to the contrary, are worthless.
Christ did not “become” sin for us in the sense that He was somehow transformed into something sinful. Christ did not “commit” sin for us. Christ was and is God. He was, is, and always will be spotless. Christ, the sinless, bore the price for our sins. He redeemed us. He did not join us in our sin!
<>
Why do you say “even”? This is the only verse in the Bible that can be misconstrued to support the ridiculous notion that “the Father did turn His back on His son for a time.”
Notice that Christ does not say, “My Father My Father”. Where Jesus addresses the Father directly, He calls him “My Father”. Jesus is “God”. John 1.
There are so many things wrong with construing Matt. 27:46 as a direct address to the Father, rather than a quote of Psalm 22, there is not room to name them all. Here is one. Tell me, what is the absolute, positive, unquestionable and unvarying requirement of any sacrifice for sin?
Believers l love you all!
Thank you for sharing such a topic, my request is les stick in his word until we agree on one true thing’ of which lm still searching but above all HE is Omnipresent and we shall knw tha truth and tha truth shall set us free?
One does not find the attributes of God in the writings of men.
As Charles Haddon Spurgeon put it, “The mind of God is greater than all the minds of men, so let all men leave the gospel just as God has delivered it unto us.”
I agree with your statements, but I wanted to point out that Christ’s words here are Aramaic, not Hebrew.
Odd fact: Hebrew was a dead language in the time of Jesus, and actually had been for centuries. It was used only for liturgical purposes, much like Latin in the Catholic church fifty years ago.
As I see it, Jesus was fully God and fully human when He was born on earth; yes, He was a friend to “sinners”–that didn’t mean He approved their sin; generally those sinners befriended by Him were those who could see their need for Him, while the Pharisees were sinners who thought they were righteous. The idea that God can’t look on sin with favor is indeed true, because He is holy; if you say He can, you’re denying Scripture (Hab. 1:13). What His not looking on sin with favor means is that our sin obstructs our relationship with God and for unbelievers, it brings on His wrath, condemnation, and punishment; for believers, it brings on His loving discipline to bring us back to obedience. Our prayers are pointless when we’re cherishing sin in our hearts. We can’t expect salvation when we won’t acknowledge our sin and our need for Jesus Christ’s atonement for us. Jesus remained God but became sin while He was on the cross. He died and three days later rose again. He paid the penalty for our sin by becoming our sin, becoming an offense to God, dying on the cross for us, and experiencing the Father’s wrath; He was victorious over Satan and death when He rose again still fully human and fully God; death could not hold Him, and now He is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven who has exalted Him above the heavens (Acts 5:31, Phil 2:9; Heb 7:26). I think you’ll be able to find all these things stated in various ways in the Scriptures.
Well, He can’t look favorably on sin, and since Jesus became sin for us, He couldn’t look favorably on Jesus. He can of course look upon sinful humanity and see the offense of it; I don’t believe there’s a Scripture quote that says He can’t even look upon it. He can’t look favorably upon it though. Because God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) are two of the Godhead, and had a perfect, unmarred, continual and holy relationship to that point, and there Jesus was bearing the sin of humanity upon Himself on the cross, it caused an unprecedented harsh division between the Father and the Son. I believe that this was the worse part of the crucifixion than the physical aspect, horrible and undeserved though that was. Jesus paid the penalty for our sin, God being the Judge and Satan being the accuser. The penalty, I believe, is paid to God, who is wrathful at sinful humanity. God’s entire goal is that we be reconciled to Him by trusting in the adequacy of the blood of Jesus Christ. Our sin does break communion with God, but for believers the price is already paid. He wants us not to sin, but we are not entirely free from the power of sin until we go to heaven; just God’s wrath and its penalty. As we progress in our sanctification, we become less bound to our sin and more aware of it. If you are sensitive to the prompting of the Holy Spirit, He will be faithful to convict you of any sin that you have committed so that you can confess and repent. You are right that when we sin, it is surely us who wander from God, not He who wanders from us. He surely does love His own continually. No one can snatch us out of His hand (John 10:28).
As another suggested, reading Wayne Grudem’s work would be helpful for clarifying the details of this; also Mark Driscoll has written a book that would further explain it, Death by Love. In addition, there is an excellent and readable book by J.I. Packer, called Knowing God. None of these, of course, should preclude reading the Scriptures as your primary source of understanding.
<>
What are one or two of the other “many places”?
There are none. Zero. Including Hab. 1:13, btw. You can mistranslate Habbakuk all you want, but that is not what it says.
The Bible doesn’t claim that God can’t look upon sin but that He can’t look upon it with favor (Hab. 1:13). I think that what I said at the beginning of my last post is as thorough an answer to this as is necessary. Of course it will not be crystal-clear to any of us before we see Jesus face-to-face. Exactly what God’s forsaking of Jesus consists of is only spelled out to a certain extent in the Scriptures, but God did forsake Jesus for that period, not that outward circumstances required Him to, but His own holiness within did, as well as His own fore-ordained plan for our redemption; His wrath came upon Jesus on our behalf, and Jesus willingly (Jn 10:11, 15, 17, 15:13; Rom 5:7) took all the penalty for our sin–what all of that consists of is not perfectly clear, but some is the physical aspect that He endured that day, and some is spiritual separation from His Father, bearing the wrath and shame for all of our sin; anything beyond that I think is not so clearly spelled out (though theologians no doubt can expound on it better than I and some argue the details), but the Scriptures declare everything that we need to know. The fact that one sin would be enough to cast a person into hell for eternity (James 2:10) multiplied by all those for whom He died shows the extreme burden of guilt and shame and the degree of wrath that Jesus bore, which you might conclude was beyond anything we can think or especially endure. Because He was sinless, perfectly obedient to the Father, He was able to provide in Himself the perfect sacrifice for our sin and because He is God He had the power to be resurrected to life again (Jn 10:18) and to resurrect us when the time comes, which is the source of all our certain hope! Hallelujah!
I hope this helps.
Jordan, I did not mean to contradict you; I was working on my post and didn’t see yours until I was done; let me clarify what I mean. When I say God is able to look upon sin I mean that as I read the Scriptures I see that He is hardly oblivious to sin; He knows exactly when and where it is occurring, though I see Him as recoiling at it and His response is sure. He doesn’t embrace, affirm or ignore any sin. Sin is offense to God. He responds in wrath toward the unbeliever, ready to cast him into hell after this life; the repentant person who looks to Christ, believing in the sufficiency of His sacrifice receives forgiveness and bears no condemnation for his own sin because Jesus has already paid the penalty in His death on the cross.
Still, the unbeliever in his life on earth enjoys a great deal of grace as God allows him for that while to progress in his sin; it is not God’s will that any should perish but that all should come to eternal life (2 Peter 3:9). Also, from what I have read, hell was never made for humanity but for Satan and his demons (Mt. 25:41); still, this is the only destination for those who reject Christ.
There is still much mystery remaining; many questions can still be asked that could not be answered here; but there are also many questions that could be answered by a thorough and repeated reading of the Scriptures and by reading the writings of those who have studied the Scriptures in depth.
Another book recommendation: The Deep Things of God: How the Trinity Changes Everything, by Fred Sanders. Skip the first chapter and go from there on…the first is hard reading and superfluous in my opinion, but the rest is very helpful. There is one God, the Scriptures are clear (Dt 6:4; Isa 44:6 and many others); and there are three very distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They do very much work as a team. The Father is the One who comes up with the plan; Jesus the Son implements the plan; and the Spirit makes the plan known to us, and works within us so we can participate in what God has been doing on our behalf. If you take the Scriptures for each one and sort them out you will find the roles and activities that are particular to each. Studying the Scriptures intently will help clarify these things as much as can humanly be understood. Until you study them, it will remain a confusing muddle. It will always be something of a mystery (Who would want a God who was so simple we could fully understand Him? He’d have to be less than we are!), but much will be clearer with reading the Scriptures.
Reading secondary sources as authority is erroneous. The Bible is the word of God. Nothing else. Not doctrines, not theologies, not anything that comes from the minds of men, for all men are sinners and the imaginations of their hearts are all flawed.
Lines of reasoning are invariably wrong, if they seek to determine the nature of God.
The more I read the arguments the more I want to point those who don’t understand the Trinity or why sin is offensive to God to reading the Scriptures and the books that I have found incredibly helpful, which I recommended. Let me say this one more thing and I think I’m going to be done here: You could define sin by saying it’s anything that offends God. The Scripture says that anything that does not come from faith is sin…but you’d better recall that it’s faith in God, not in our own judgment. Jeremiah 17:9 says that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Don’t trust your own logic or understanding; seek that of God; His ways are not our ways, nor His thoughts our thoughts. We can’t come to the truth apart from the Scriptures through the help of His Holy Spirit. We could argue all these points but if you aren’t wanting to read the Scriptures for yourselves, there’s no point in discussing any of it further.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding. Prov. 3:5
Connie’s statement is practically a quote. 1 Cor. 1 is a fuller explication. Asking the question, “Does God require us to set aside all thought and reasoning” is not helpful here. My answer would “no”, but this does not help in the interpretation of Scripture or other matters. 1 Cor. states very clearly that we cannot know God through thought and reasoning.
Christ calls us to obedience, not understanding.
“Interested,” when you say “I know mine was when I believed the way that you did anyway” I’m fairly certain that you never did believe as I do; you don’t sound as if you have ever been in that neighborhood. Much of what you say is simply not biblical and you need to read the Scriptures for what they say; I don’t live in guilt, but rather relieved of guilt because I realize I was a sinner who needed the Savior. There is no other means to be rid of guilt; stated another way, there is no guiltlessness apart from Christ (John 14:6); there’s no understanding of grace; there’s no rest. Sin hurts us because we were designed to glorify God and when we sin we’re living in a self-destructive way for which we were not designed. You’re redefining God, sin, guilt, and trying to shape them all in a way that makes you comfortable and that you can fully understand. Go ahead if you want, but it won’t result in a relationship with the true God of the Bible. If you can’t accept that God, you have to make a pretend one who cannot save you.
This is clearly a point where we are no longer discussing but arguing. If you won’t read the Scriptures for the truth they contain there’s no further point in discussing it; I’m done.
I am impressed with your deep thinking, and I am glad that you are wrestling with these topics. They’re very important. Even if we never fully understand them this side of heaven, it’s important that we come to as good an understanding as we are able, because that’s why God gave us the Scriptures was that we would seek understanding and wisdom; so that we can worship Him in spirit and in truth; so we can love Him well. Keep on studying this way; I know it pleases God!
Having said that, I want to clarify one thing that seems to have slipped from notice: remember that it isn’t that God can’t look on sin since all of mankind is sinful and He knows all that happens here. It is that He can’t look on sin with favor. That means that He can see it, but He can’t favor it. He can’t approve it. He isn’t soft on sin; there is a penalty for all sin which is death, meaning separation from or breaking of fellowship with God, and Jesus paid the penalty for it for those who look to Him for salvation.
It’s hard to know exactly what the forsaking on the cross consisted of, but I don’t believe that Jesus would say something inaccurate just to quote something out of the Old Testament. All of the Old Testament points to Christ, and in His agony He wasn’t just going to pick something that didn’t apply perfectly to His condition; it was going to be drawn from something that had specifically to do with that moment. It was in the Old Testament pointing to the day that Jesus would die on the cross.
To say that God the Father couldn’t have forsaken Him because they are One, I believe, misapplies the form that Oneness takes. I believe that they were one in purpose and will and many other aspects; because Jesus has always been fully obedient to the Father they have always remained one in these ways. But when “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God,”(2 Cor. 5:21) He carried the horrors and repulsiveness of every single sin at least that those who trust in Him have ever committed; He took the penalty for those sins. It doesn’t change the nature of His being…when the Scriptures say He never changes, there are things it is referring to about His nature, His holiness. Jesus changed in having been born, His incarnation. That was a change but not changing His immutable traits. So that moment on the cross, with God forsaking Him, doesn’t change the nature of God. He is holy, not favoring sin. He is just, requiring punishment for the offense of sin. He is love, and loved the world in such a way that He gave His Son to die for us. Some of it will remain mysterious, not fully comprehensible this side of heaven. We have finite minds that cannot fully grasp how all these seemingly conflicting things can work together; still, you and I are to still try to do it to the best of our ability. I’m thankful that you are doing so!
In a book I read by J.I. Packer, called Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, the author talks about the things that seem to contradict each other and that we can’t fully understand to reconcile in our minds to any satisfaction…he tells us that this type of thing is called an “antimony.” He says an antinomy is, unlike a paradox,
“neither dispensable nor comprehensible. It is not a figure of speech, but an observed relation between two statements of fact. It is not deliberately manufactured; it is forced on us by the facts themselves. It is unavoidable and it is insoluble. We did not invent it and we cannot explain it. Nor is there any way to get rid of it, save by falsifying the very facts that led us to it.”
That helps me, and it doesn’t! Theology is a very interesting, grand and frustrating topic in this way. But wouldn’t you rather have a God who you can’t fully understand than one you could, as you can pretty fully understand another human? It just shows how big and beyond us He is and how we need to depend on His thinking because it is so different from our own.
I don’t know if you agree with anything I’ve said, but I am thankful for all your care and study. The best theologians around have areas on which they disagree and points which they have to admit they don’t fully understand. Keep on reading, praying, studying, meditating! It will help a great deal as you go through life! :O)And it matters more that you agree with the Scriptures as the Holy Spirit makes them known to you than that you agree with any mere human being.
I wrote an article about this. It is a moment of triumph.
http://dailyprayer.us/daily_devotion_blog/my-god-my-god-why-have-you-forsaken-me/
I have noticed myriad inaccurate translations in the NIV, including one or two that rise to the level of “deceptive.” My language is Greek, though, so I’m talking about the New Testament.
(In particular, I wonder at the NIV omitting the words “his soul” from James 5:20. One might wonder if the omission is intentional, as it tends to speak against the doctrine of the perseverance of salvation.) The accuracy of the Greek translation, at least, was enormously improved in the 2011 edition; I would guess the addition of Bill Mounce to the CBT in 2009 put an end to a lot of nonsense.
I wouldn’t make an accusation, but the possibility that an NIV translator might have worded Habbakuk 1:13 to conform to a particular theological perspective occurs to me.
The NASB is uniformly excellent in accurate translation of the New Testament, so it would not surprise me if its accuracy extends to the Old Testament, as well.
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. Ephesians 4:29
Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing. 1 Thessalonians 5:11
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. Colossians 4:6
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, 1 Peter 3:15
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, Matthew 12:36
PSALM 22
Psa 22:1 Psalm 22
For the music director; according to the tune “Morning Doe;”2 a psalm of David.
My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?3
I groan in prayer, but help seems far away.4
Psa 22:2 My God, I cry out during the day,
but you do not answer,
and during the night my prayers do not let up.5
Psa 22:3 You are holy;
you sit as king receiving the praises of Israel.6
Psa 22:4 In you our ancestors7 trusted;
they trusted in you8 and you rescued them.
Habakkuk questions God in 1:13, “Hey, you’re God, right? And you can’t look at sin with favor, right? So why are you letting those sinners (uncircumcised Babylonians/Chaldeans) hurt us chosen people (circumcised Jews)?” -Carla Translation
Be careful that you do not treat Habakkuk’s question as a statement. He is not stating that God cannot look at sin. He is asking for clarification. Notice the “WITH FAVOR” part.
We get the benefit of knowing what happened after Habakkuk wrote this, so it further helps us to know what he was asking of God and what God did in answer to him. In actuality, God DID allow those sinners to hurt those chosen people!! Habakkuk wrote this question just a few short years before the southern kingdom fell to the Babylonians. (Habakkuk prophesied sometime between 621 B.C. and 609 B.C. and the Babylonian captivity started in 605 B.C.)
Habakkuk 1:12 Are You not from everlasting,
O LORD, my God, my Holy One?
We will not die
You, O LORD, have appointed them to judge;
And You, O Rock, have established them to correct.
13 Your eyes are too pure to approve evil,
And You can not look on wickedness with favor
Why do You look with favor
On those who deal treacherously?
Why are You silent when the wicked swallow up
Those more righteous than they? -NASB Translation
Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting?
My God, my Holy One, we will not die.
O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment;
O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.
13 Your eyes are too pure to look on evil;
you cannot tolerate wrong.
Why then do you tolerate the treacherous?
Why are you silent while the wicked
swallow up those more righteous than themselves?
-NIV Translation
Habakkuk 1: 12 Are not You from everlasting, O Lord my God, my Holy One? We shall not die. O Lord, You have appointed [the Chaldean] to execute [Your] judgment, and You, O Rock, have established him for chastisement and correction.
13 You are of purer eyes than to behold evil and can not look [inactively] upon injustice. Why then do You look upon the plunderer? Why are you silent when the wicked one destroys him who is more righteous than [the Chaldean oppressor] is?
-Amplified Bible
As for Psalm 22, keep reading! You’re just getting to the good part – the prophecy of Jesus hanging on the cross, His heart melting like wax, the soldiers gambling for His clothes, His bones not being broken! And further down, it says He will NOT hide His face from Jesus’ cry for help – or from the sinner’s cry for help!
24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has NOT hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help. -NIV
Thanks be to our God and Father who will NEVER forsake me, unless I forsake Him.
(Deut 31:6, 8; Josh 1:5; II Chron 15:2; Psa 9:10; Psa 37:28; Isa 41:17, 42:16; Heb 13:5)
Psalm 22 was written by David and in the context I quoted above was not directly in reference to Jesus on the cross, it is as Walvoord states:
The psalmist apparently felt forsaken by God, as he was surrounded by his enemies’ scornful persecution. He lamented his tremendous suffering and his desperate struggle with death, pleading with God to deliver him from such a horrible end. Apparently his prayer was answered, for he was able to declare to the elect and to the world that the Lord answered his prayer.No known incident in the life of David fits the details of this psalm. The expressions describe an execution, not an illness; yet that execution is more appropriate to Jesus’ crucifixion than David’s experience. The Gospel writers also saw connections between some of the words in this psalm (Psa_22:8, Psa_22:16, Psa_22:18) and other events in Christ’s Passion. Also Heb_2:12 quotes Psa_22:22. Thus the church has understood this psalm to be typological of the death of Jesus Christ. This means that David used many poetic expressions to portray his immense sufferings, but these poetic words became literally true of the suffering of Jesus Christ at His enemies’ hands. The interesting feature of this psalm is that it does not include one word of confession of sin, and no imprecation against enemies. It is primarily the account of a righteous man who was being put to death by wicked men.
The Church has come to understand this as a typology of Christs suffering. The real image we should get is in ISA 53:12 That he was numbered as one of them… Jesus never became sinful, it is not part of God’s nature. Is God not able to sin or is He able not to sin? Answer: GOD IS NOT ABLE TO SIN… hence the Father did not turn away from His Son because of His sin, but turned away from mankinds sin as the offering of His Son was being rendered. He became SIN but was not SINFUL… He could do this because Jesus was not sinful, and substituted Himself as payment in full. We could not do it because we have the blemish that needs to be taken care of first before we could for others… our Sin nature prohibits this for all eternity. In short JESUS is the only person who could do this for mankind and no one else.
Jesus cry’s out on the cross for a couple of reasons, first was that He was David’s decendant and that God promised David that he would always have someone on the throne. Secondly that he is pointing them back to the messianic prediction of the cruxifiction some 800 years before it was invented, and finally the picture of despare that David felt when he was surrounded by the forces of Saul and the Philistines…. kinda like Jesus on the cross. No where does God the Father even leave His Son, as a matter of fact, if you look at what is stated… I FEEL LIKE… Not YOU HAVE ACTUALLY… Point here is that in the midst of any turmoil we feel like we walk alone, but in actuality we are positionally in heaven with the Father, and JESUS…. (EPH 1:3-14) YES READ IT ALL… yet another topic for Brother Mark… ELECTION.
We see in Daniel 7:13-14… a presentation of Jesus to the Father… in front of the Court of heaven (Rev. 4), If the Father had turned his back on Jesus because of Sin, the Father would never present Him. I am with Carla.. He never has and Never will turn His back on the Son, because of this as we are found in the Son (like a page in a book), it is impossible for God to turn His back on us, because He never did, never does, and never will to His own Son.
It’s a wonderful question my friend. The answer is complex. Let me see if I can condense and simplify. The Bible says that the first Adam who by his actions wasanished from the Garden of Eden and separated from God because of his sin. In fact the Bible says in II Cor.5:21 God made Jesus to be sin for us. In other words Jesus was the representative of the first Adam when he was hanging on that cross and in His agony He cries out “Eloi Eloi lama sabach thani”, which means My MY God why have you forsaken me. This word in the Greek is the word enkataleipo, which means to leave, abandon, desert,and reject.We have people all the time who ask us why did you turn you’re back on me when we are actually referring to being rejected. God rejected Jesus on the cross because he represented the same thing that Adam did in the Garden of Eden, namely sin.Be blessed. Have a wonderfulday. Forgive the error in the document for some reason type over mechanism kicked in and I could not deactivate it.
I really like reading the thoughts of different people on these web sites. It shows (in most instances) a desire to impart some degree of understanding to those who have questions. Some answers are better than others in the sense that the person has done a little or lot of searching out scripture. Scripture however is not enough when looking towards the Holiest being in all the universe. We need to humble ourselves and admit we do not know many of the deep things of God the Father and His nature. True we can glean many satisfying truths about Him. To know Him takes another dimension of relationship many are reluctant to engage in. In that engagement their is a fullness that can be so fulfilling that your very demeanor will puzzle people. Its like the old foolish nonsense statement “I KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT I KNOW” yet at that juncture of closeness to Him it is not foolishness any longer. Of course there is the danger of pride but this too can be remedied by exercising true humility and confess “I know you Love me and are lavishing favor upon me and Lord I KNOW I do not deserve this. When this happens my thought process reverts to Gods statement “But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Let me see if I’ve got this straight. At the greatest moment of triumph in the history of the human race – as His only begotten Son hung in the balance between heaven and earth, taking our sins on Himself to the Cross – His Father, Almighty God said, “Oh, dear me, I just can’t stand to look! Sin is just too, too ugly; it’s just so very awful, I must turn my eyes away and abandon my beloved son!
At what point do you think God stopped looking? And at what point in time do you think He found it possible to resume looking at His Son? When did this sin people say God could not look upon “disappear” from the broken and bloody body of the Holy One so that God found it possible to turn again and look at His Son?
My Bible tells me the sacrifice of the Christ was sufficient for all time and for the sins of all men. Doesn’t this signify Jesus is continually – throughout all of time – taking on Himself the sins of those who come to the foot of the Cross so they do not have to suffer eternal separation from God? If so, does God abandon His Son and look away from Him afresh each time a sinner comes to the Cross?
No! Of course not! If God can not look on sin (whatever that means), He could never even glance sideways at earth again. Sin runs rampant on this planet. Whatever God can or cannot do – whatever He does or will not do – one thing He did not do is this: He NEVER abandoned His Son or looked away from Him as He gave His very life on that old rugged cross so that I might live!
A very good question. The fact is, God can do whatever He pleases. He is God. The statements above is not concerning God’s inability to do anything according to His power. It is however, a statement of His intolerance of sin. Christ became sin for us(2 Corinthians 5:21) so yes the Father did turn His back on His son for a time. Christ even said in Matthew “My God My God why have You forsaken me?” if anyone knew what the Father was actually doing, it was Christ. and Christ said that the Father forsook Him. How long was that forsaken period? The Bible does not say, but we do know that three days after Jesus’ death, the Father, out of love for His son, rose Him from the dead and glorified Him (Phil 2) Christ, who was without sin took on all of the worlds past, present, and future sins at that one time on the cross. All was forgiven in that moment for anyone who would simply believe in Him. I hope this helps and may God bless you in your efforts to search Him out. He truly does love you and He proved it by His death on the cross
Ahh, Sorry if God could not look on sin, that means that it effects him in some way. God is all powerful. Your sin or my sin can not effect him one bit. If it could, he has a weakness and we know he does not. Jesus saying that on the cross was because he was fully man and had taken on the full sin and shame of humanity. In that moment , he perceived that God had turned his back, just the same as we do when we feel shameful for our sin and that God is nowhere to be found(we know that is not true, yet we feel it), that how could God even look at us we are dirty and he is holy. But the fact of the matter is, The bible says that “God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself” He was in Christ and was always there.
God 1 Sin 0
Job Chapter 1 says that Satan went before God. If the angelic beholder of all sin gathered with the angels to go before our holy father and accuse Job of his sin, how can we say God cannot look upon sin?
Revelation 12:10 also says “For the accuser of our brothers who accuses them before our God day and night”…
No reference is made that God had his back to Satan during these encounters. The words say “before God” not “to God while He turned His back”.
And to D Marcum – this sounds like gnosticism. While I can appreciate that some have had amazingly close, even transcendant closeness with the Holy God, we the people cannot continue to believe individuals who proclaim this as this has led to too many numerous deviations from the Way and even to death. While I agree that no amount of paper on earth could capture the greatness of God, it’s what He gave us, and we can at least use the Book to identify heresy and meat out understanding.
Sin is rebellion against GOD.The whole world is in rebellion.
The Lord God looks to and fro, and sees no faith on the earth.
What ever is not of faith is sin. Of course GOD looks on sin, are we so blind not to see and hear what the scriptures say, hello is anyone home.
If God can’t be around sin or “look on” sin…how could he be speaking to Adam and Eve after their “fall”? How could God become a human and spend time with “sinners” and self proclaimed saints if he was somehow allergic to sin? Don’t we think we give ourselves a little too much credit? Can our measly decisions really somehow effect or change the holiness of God…NO!
Sin separates us from God, because the act of sinning is us choosing to seaparte ourselves from God and seeking to have our God given desired filled apart from Him. We are the ones that do the separating, not God. Look at the story of the prodigal son…the SON left, and Father was ready to take him back. God not only wants to free us from our sin to save us from death, but also to free us from shame so that we may boldly approach his throne of grace, knowing that our salvation was not earned by us but given freely.
Let’s look at this moment in Jesus’s life as it is. THE MOST important point in his life. He has one last thing to speak to the World before his death. What does he tell us?
He says, go and re-read Psalm 22. See the final prophesy about my life. See what my Father, OUR Father had planned for me and HAS planned for me. See in verse 3 Jesus’ statement about God holiness. See in verse 7 how Jesus was scoffed at. See in verse 9 how Jesus acknowledged his birth. In verses 11-15 how he talks about his humanly nature and frailty and the pain he is feeling. In verse 18 how he predicted the casting of lots for his clothing… On and On.
Then read the psalm again knowing that Jesus inspired David to write these words both as a statement of David’s anguish, but also as prophecy about his final moments!
Then read it again knowing that much of this is about OUR anguish and see the reward we are promised in its verses.
We as Christians are promised pain in this life, but we are also promised to be of the families of the nations who will worship before The King. We will declare His righteousness to future generations that He DID it! He saved us all!!
What was Jesus saying? Maybe, he was preaching and teaching even to his last breath! Because he SO INCREDIBLY Loved US! You, Me, every sinner. WOW!!! AMEN!!
The Father,Son, and Holy Spirit can never be seporated.
God came to me in the night and told me this answer. Jesus for the first time in all eternity could not see the father because sin was placed upon him. Sin blinds all of us.
2Corinth 4 4In whom the god of this world hath (blinded the minds of them which believe not), lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. I pose the question could it be that this was the first time that he fully became man? because all other times he was God walking as man. Or Man walking as God. Scary to think that God “Jesus” did not understand the full blindness of sin. But something tells me that there is more to this…… In everytime I have heard someone preach I have hear the same thing. God cant look upon sin. NOT TRUE! How would he draw you, me or anybody out of sin if he could not see us. We can not hide from God. Nothing that we do could ever blind God. How could it be writen in heaven “the things we sin in” to give account on judgement day? When Jesus hung on the cross it was the first time he was blinded to the father who was in reality very near. The bible plainly states “It please God to see him brused”. Look how many times the sky drew dark when God showed up. He himself said that he hides himself in the darkness. Look it up you’ll find it. Moses drew near to God in the thick darkness.
John 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
This srciptur alone speaks volumes to those that here what the spirit says.
Have a great day brother:)
You don’t seem to understand the Attributes of God. I would suggest reading Grudem’s Systematic Theology. No, God could not look at sin. Why? He’s holy.
Jordan…that’s nice that you feel that way, however you can’t just say someone does not understand God, throw a random book reference at them and then claim you have a superior understanding and give absolutely no proof for the superiority of your opinion. Yes, God IS holy…but does God’s holiness seperate us from God, or does our sin?…chew on that Jordan.
When Jesus was dying on the cross and He cried out “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”. Had God actually turned His back on Jesus? Was Jesus left alone for that time on the cross? If so, what is the scriptural basis for that “belief” that is held by so many? If not, what did Jesus mean when He spoke these words?
Here is what I understand about this statement of Jesus in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34 in light of Psalm 22?
Upon close examination we find that the words recorded in the Gospels are actually Hebrew or Aramaic. This helps us to see the relationship of the Gospel verses and the verse in Psalms.
The statements are basically identical in all three passages. The minor differences between Hebrew and Aramaic are not linguistically relevant. That is, they are saying the same thing.
Why is it that this is the only recorded statement of Jesus from the cross quoted in Hebrew? Is it that Jesus did not speak any other words from the cross in Hebrew? That is unknown. But it is significant that these are the ONLY words RECORDED in both gospels in Hebrew.
It is also significant that these are the EXACT same words of Psalm 22:1. Psalm 22 is a very important prophesy concerning the Messiah.
Was Jesus actually crying out in agony and despair or was He quoting the 22nd Psalm? Would the Hebrew people that were observing His crucifixion understand these words as referring to Psalm 22? Yes.
I believe that Jesus was saying several things when He quoted the 22nd Psalm.
1. The next words were “I thirst” and “It is finished.” Thus Jesus was drawing attention to the fulfillment of this prophecy right before their eyes. It Is Finished.
2. The last words of Psalm 22 are “They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,
That He has done this.” Ps 22:31 NKJV. I believe that Jesus was saying, “You did not do this! God did this for you!”
3. The words of the 22nd Psalm speak of a great victory through the suffering of the Messiah. I believe Jesus was crying out, “Victory!!”
4. Jesus was not forsaken by God because He IS God. (John 1:1 ff). So, was he truly forsaken, or was He preaching the cross and Him crucified?
Brenden, sorry for the brevity for my comment. I was under the assumption that you understood that the substitutionary atonement of Jesus as a propitiation for our sins was understood and that a reference for further understanding would be helpful. Your question, “does God’s holiness separate us from God or our sin?” is easily answerable. It is BECAUSE of our sin that God separates Himself from us. For example, it is not sin – an inanimate substance – that throws us into hell at the judgement – it’s God that does so. It is God the Father that thrust the spear into Jesus’ side and it was God that bruised Him, crucified Him, wounded Him, and killed Him (Isaiah 53). He died for the sins of the elect, but it was God that carried out the punishment.
D. Cantrell, your synopsis is right but I would question your #4. Although the Godhead is one, they are also separate beings with separate characteristics and separate purposes, roles, etc… Jesus was most certainly separated from God. Consider Galatians 3:10,13. That’s why in my previous post I suggested Systematic Theology by Grudem because you need to fully understand the attributes of God, in this case particularly his justice and holiness. Because Jesus was made sin on our behalf, God would be separated from Him – just like you and I are if we are still lost in our sins.
Jordan – I agree. However, do you suggest that Jesus Stopped being God while He was cross? The gnostics taught that. They taught that Jesus was a human that God occupied until the cross. They also taught that He was not truly flesh and blood and that He only “Spiritually” rose from the grave. If Jesus was not fully God on the cross – well then the debt owed was not fully paid, the propitiation was not fully satisfying.
I believe that Jesus was and still is fully God.Scripture confirms this. So, He could not turn His back on Himself. Is. 59:3 tells us that our sins separate us from God. Like a cloud blocks the sun. The idea that God does not look upon sin is not completely true. he did have to carry out the garbage and it was not a pleasant experience. But to say that God completely abandoned Jesus on the cross is to say that Jesus stopped being God for that time.
I agree with and understand the doctrine of the Trinity, but a good grasp of sotierology will teach you that the ultimate price had to be, and was, paid by God Himself. When the time came I believe that God “girded up His loins” and did the dirty work that needed to be done. Praise His Name!
Jordan, I understand you’re position, because it was one I used to hold…however if God cannot look on sin how could Jesus (Still God) exist in the world as a human, especially a human who had a reputation of being a friend to “sinners”?If sin forced God to separate Himself from us, how could he have BECOME a human? How could he have been born from the womb of a sinful person? Is sin God’s kryptonite? Does this not limit the power of God?
Connie, never was the question , “does God look favorably upon sin,” the question was, “can God look on sin.” So your argument is nice…but not the point.
“He paid the penalty for our sin by becoming our sin, becoming an offense to God, dying on the cross for us, and experiencing the Father’s wrath”
Who did he pay?
Connie, ask yourself this…what is God’s goal? Is it to get us to stop sinning…if so, then why? Could the answer be because it separates us from God? HOWEVER if God is the one doing the separating then how do I know when we are connected again? When I STOP sinning? What if I am sinning and I don’t realize it? Am I still unconnected with God and don’t realize it, and deluding myself? What if the every act OF sinning is what separates us from God? Then it is US doing the separating. Therefore in order to be restored to God we merely need to repent and see that God has been there, loving us all along.
Connie – you still did not address the question.
(in reference to Jesus’s words on the cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” The next thing people usually say is “God turned away from Jesus” or something like that.
I would like to put this to you for help.
Where does it say this in the Bible? I’m sure that lots of really smart theological types think that God can’t look on sin and that he turned away from Jesus on the cross, but I want to know what Scripture says about this issue.)
I do not believe that scripture bears out the idea that God cannot look upon sin, therefore He turned His back on Jesus, Who IS God. “With God all things are possible.” So, He can look upon sin. But, as you say, He will not ever approve sin.
One of many places that would either state it directly or lead one to believe that God does not “look upon” sin is Habbakuk 1:13, “You who are of purer eyes than to see evil and cannot look at wrong.”
I think the crux of this argument is that a substitutionary atonement is hard to stomach in a world that’s forgotten sound theology. God HATES sin and has promised to punish sin. He WILL forsake sin and will separate Himself from it for all eternity as a part of His retributive justice. As Christ was made sin on our behalf, that curse fell to Him. In a very real way, God the Father forsook Him.
I’m concerned by these posts that some don’t understand trinitarian theology when they say “Jesus is God, therefore God couldn’t reject or forsake Himself.” You need to understand that although the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God, they are distinct, individual entities with separate roles within the Godhead. Anything else is modalism.
And yes, Grudem’s Systematic Theo is a great place to look.
Jordan – So we have three Gods that work as a team? A team of one? Scripture no where bears this out. God is One. He says so over and over. He is not three. He is one being revealed in three personalities. Some times I wonder if people don’t spend more time reading other peoples opinions of theology than studying the source for themselves.
“God is an enigma wrapped in a riddle” someone once said. What happens in these debates is we lose sight of what actually happened on the cross. I believe that is more controversial than whether or not God can look upon sin or if He turned His back on Jesus. Although that is still at the heart of Who God is, the most important thing for us to understand is the complete, nothing else needed, atonement for sin on the cross. Belief in that alone is all that is needed to be born again. That is the message we should be expending our energy to preach. That is the Gospel that we are to spread into all the world.
Your comment – “You need to understand that although the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God, they are distinct, individual entities with separate roles within the Godhead. Anything else is modalism.” – denies the definition of the Trinity as God is one. He is not three individual entities. He is one entity expressed in three personalities, as I stated earlier, not in three sequential modes. However, the Trinity is not three distinct, individual entities. The Trinity is one distinct entity with three different revealed personalities that exist together in one being at the same time. Remember God tells us we can never fully understand Him. Much of the enigma must be taken in faith. We will, one day, know in full.
Connie – All true. However, to say that God is three separate entities working together as a team is contrary to what He says of Himself. Dt 6:4-5 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
Another thought that is sometimes debated is that if Jesus is the Father’s Son then He is not an eternal being with no beginning because to be the Son the Father must have existed prior to the Son. This line of reasoning will eventually boggle the mind to frustration. It is a wrangling of words that is to no avail. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. We must agree that we will never be able to understand the enormous construct of Who God is in makeup. We must submit to faith in Him as He has revealed Himself to us.
I know you mean well. Referencing “The Lord our God is One” does not imply that they are one entity with three personalities. For example, they are a “they” and not a “He”; the Son is on the right hand of the Father (in two places). Christ did not pray to Himself but His Father.
Before you commit yourself to a severe heresy, google “modalism.” It’s the doctrine that says One individual, three personalities (or modes). TD Jakes holds to this doctrine. Modalism has been declared a heresy by every generation of the church since Christ.
I have heard a lot of people say that sin is an offense against God…I think it would be good to ask yourselves why that is true. Why is sin so offensive?
Also, the idea of a “team” is not ridiculous or unbiblical…it would be MORE Biblical in my opinion than even the belief that the Holy Spirit is a separate person within God…this is something that I see very little Biblical evidence for…and know that the entire trinitarian theology was thought of by men to settle a dispute in the church.
The word used for “one” in the schema, which Connie just quoted is the EXACT same word (echad) that is used to describe the “oneness” in marriage in Genesis. Jesus prays in John chapter 17 that the church may be “one” just as He is “one” with the father. Perhaps the oneness is a unity found in a profoundly intimate relationship…not sameness. Look at the world around us…God loves diversity.
“You could define sin by saying it’s anything that offends God.”
Connie, your definition is circular…therefore a logical fallacy. WHY!?!?! THINK! God has given you a mind!
Yes, I would also encourage YOU to read the scriptures, especially with the understanding that Jesus is the revealed nature and character of God to mankind…the more you realize THAT, the more one will realize how inconsistant God’s character is when you interpret this idea of God looking on sin the way that many of you seem to.
“Don’t trust your own logic or understanding”
….?
Yes, having trust in God takes a LOT of faith…but to say that it is devoid of thought and REQUIRES you to set aside all logic and reasoning is in my honest opinion lazy and based on fear. I agree that God’s ways are higher than ours, and there are many things that we need to trust Him on, but in this case you seem to be using that argument as a cop out…not as a legitimate answer.
…it’s not that I don’t understand how God views sin or how I view the trinity…it’s that our views are different. I am trying to help you own your perspective, because I think your perspective tends to be based on fear and guilt…not love. I know mine was when I believed the way that you did anyway, the Bible clearly states that perfect love casts out fear.
I don’t mean to sound accusatory, and I am truly sorry if I come across that way; it’s just for me, living with the idea that God is full of wrath towards sinners was an unbearable pressure…I felt that I always had to make the right decisions or God’s wrath would be poured out on me. God was a distant angry figure that wanted nothing to do with me, and made himself (?) die so that I wouldn’t have to burn for all eternity for my own idiocy.
I have come to understand that this is not who God is at all, in fact this is the OPPOSITE of who God is. I never understood grace. I never understood rest. And most importantly, I never understood love. God does have wrath, but towards sinners, but towards sin. Why? Not because it somehow offends him, as if he could be offended by something so trivial, but because it seperates us from Himself. He loves us! And He knows that being connected with Him is the best thing for us, because He designed us that way. By sinning we are seperating ourselves from God…we believe the lie that God does not have our best interests at heart and we seek to find life from another source. God doesn’t want us to sin because it HURTS US!! not because it offends him. God is the Father that is waiting for our arrival with great expectation. God is the man who says that prostitutes and tax collecters will enter the Kingdom of Heaven before religious people. God is the one who cares for the widow and the orphan. Yes, God is Holy…but that does not overrule his love and mercy, it compliments it.
” but towards sinners, but towards sin.”
I meant NOT towards sinners, but towards sin…WHOOPS!! Hahaha, sorry.
I know this is opening up a whole can of worms here, but….just to clarify. The whole “God hates sin, not sinners” thing is not altogether accurate. Psalm 5:5 tells us that God hates all who sin. But it is true that on some level he loves the world in a GENERAL way (John 3:16). However, God DOES hate sinners (he hated Esau – Romans 9). But even if you disagree with the MANY verses expressing God’s hate for specific people, you have to admit He does not send your sin to hell. He sends sinners to hell.
One last thought. Connie, I WAS where you are. I am sorry you don’t believe me, but that is true. Just because I believe differently NOW doesn’t mean I didn’t think differently when I was younger. My “pretend” God has already saved me, and I believe that He will continue to do so.
I am not arguing…I am still discussing. However, if you are done I can respect that.
And Jordan, your last post made me want to cry…and not in a good way. You should look at those scriptures in context of the verses they are around, the context of the culture, and in the case of Romans 9, the scripture Paul is quoting from the Old Testament. Also Psalms is so based on emotion and expressing of feeling…probably NOT the best place to base your entire theology.
Jordan – I am quite aware of what modalism is and my views are in the same vein. I simply believe that the scriptures teach us about God’s character in a way that we can best understand. The truth is far more complex than a simple three entity committee/team Godhead. Scripture does not contradict itself at any time, however we are always misunderstanding it. I do not accept that God is one being in the beginning and changed into another later on and still another after that. That is modalism. What I believe is that all three persons exist in one entity and are revealed as three in a way that we cannot understand. We cannot fathom it with logic or trying to simplify Him. He is too complex for our minds to fully grasp Him, therefore we try to make Him or Them into our own image. Not a good way to go there.
I too am done.
Faux Pau — My views are NOT in the same vein. Sorry. :^)
Yes. It does make you cry when the cotton-candy, puppy dogs and rainbow God you’ve been accustomed to turns out to be an idol or your (or Sunday School teachers’) imagination. I would encourage you to read “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” by Jonathon Edwards and realize that your view of “God” is new and a product of Charles Finney and other Gospel Peddlers of the 18th and 19th Centuries.
Yes. Paul is quoting Malachi. AND???? God is immutable (here’s where I tell you yet again that you don’t understand the attributes of God). He does not change. Romans 9 points out that God hates people when He wants to hate people. And then you discount the Psalms. I can see your very, very low view of the Holy Scripture. “It’s just the psalms.” Yes. Written by the Holy Spirit. To reveal God.
Do you ever get tired of explaining why God sends people to hell that He loves? If you accept the real answer – he doesn’t, people He loves go to Heaven – it’s so releasing.
Accept God as He has revealed Himself. A God so wrathful that He has destroyed women, men, children, and nursing infants by drowning them as the bang upon the door of an ark He himself closed. And when He returns, He’ll return to utterly destroy His enemies and make the nations His foot stool and rule with a rod of iron. Then, to His great pleasure and good judgment, will sentence those not redeemed by His choice to unspeakable tortures in Hell for all eternity which He made to punish sinner – not sin. This same God demonstrates His love by throwing that wrath in Jesus who stood in as a substitute on the behalf of His elect, to save those who would be objects of His mercy.
Why are you so angry?
There’s an emotional barrier here. I’m sorry you feel this way Jordan, but you are set in the way you think and nothing I say will change your mind. Only God can do that, and I sincerely pray that he does.
I too am done. Thanks for listening, those that did.
Folks, think of sin this way.
Jesus said that the law can be condensed into 2 points. Love God and love each other. The nature of sin then becomes clearer. Anything that breaks fellowship with God or you neighbor Is sin.
If I put myself before God or His word, I have sinned.
If I put myself, my pride, my wellbeing, ego… Before the wellbeing of others I have sinned.
God sees sin and the sinner. The proof? Jesus approached Saul/Paul. He therefore saw the sinner. He then said why are you persecuting me? Therefore He saw the sinner.
But thank The Lord that He loves us enough to reach out to today, tomorrow, and forever and encourage us to return to the fellowship He designed us for.
Everything else….
Place no stumbling block before a fellow believer and talk, humbly, graciously, in fellowship and love.
He will not ever be done with us, we should never be done with each other.
Praise be to God; The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit!
I know all of these comments were posted last May, but I’m going to give a speech on this topic, so I thought I should share what I have found on this. Alot of these things have already been said, but they all need to be addressed.
Now, I was taught, from preschool to middle school, that God cannot look on sin. People (like alot of you guys) say that God is incapable of being around sin. This just isn’t true. God can, in fact, look on sin. This can be shown through a logical connection, which is this: if God and sin cannot co-exist, then God would not be here right now. There is sin in the world, and God is omnipresent; therefore He is everywhere. If God and sin cannot co-exist, then the well-known verse, “He will never leave you nor forsake you,” in Hebrews 13:5, would not be true. If we know that God will never leave us, but we make the claim that God has to leave when there is sin, God would have to leave us every day of our lives! Romans 3:23 says that we all have sinned and still fall short of the glory of God. We have sin in our lives constantly; the idea the God cannot be around sin is simply false.
Another reason that it is false is found in Job. In Job 1:6 it says this: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.” This just even further disproves the idea that God cannot be around sin. Satan came into Heaven to see God. Furthermore, he and God had a conversation. God directly addressed Satan. If God could not look on sin, then God would not have been able to do this. But God is God! He can do whatever he wants! He is all-powerful, infinite, and never changes! So, now that we know that God can look on sin, we can know this wonderful fact: God is always with us and will never leave us. We can also rejoice in the fact that our God is all-powerful, and that He loved us enough to send His son to die for us. He says this is John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.” God has provided this perfect way for us to know Him. As I have already said, if God couldn’t be around sin, He wouldn’t be able to be around us, and that would therefore make Him limited. One of the songs I listen to is called ‘Limitless’. In the chorus of this song, it says ‘this is the way that life should be is this: limitless God, puts limits on me. This is the way that out lives should be. We should be the ones that are limited, not God. He is all-powerful.
People also say that God forsook Jesus on the cross. This is also not true. See, there are some questions that need to be answered on this matter. One of which is this: Where in the Bible does it say that this happened? The answer to this question is simple: it doesn’t. Sure, it says that Jesus cried out “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” but in this Jesus could have just been quoting Psalm 22:1. This is more likely than God actually turning His back on Jesus.
Yet another reason that God simply did not forsake Jesus is this: Jesus says, “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) God also says, “I am the Lord, I do not change.” (Malachi 3:6) Obviously, if God was one with Jesus at one point in time, and if God never changes, then God would not have changed from God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in one, to just God and the Holy Spirit.
Please note that I mean all these things in love only! My purpose through this comment is not to tell you all that you are wrong, but to promote the truth being told. John 8:32 says that the truth is the thing that will set us free. I sincerely hope that I as well as all others can know the truth.
-A thirteen-year-old girl who is a REALLY deep thinker 🙂
Connie, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter 🙂
How would you refute the verse Psalm 22:24? It specifically says that God did not turn His back on Jesus…the text is this: For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.
I understand how you could think that Jesus just taking on flesh is a change for Him, but God already had a physical body. It is shown thru many verses (Deuteronomy 11:2-Remember today that your children were not the ones who saw and experienced the discipline of the LORD your God: his majesty, his mighty hand, his outstretched arm) So, technically, to become a physical form for Jesus was not a change as he already had a physical form. There are also no verses whatsoever that say He changes, but there are many that say that He does not.
I know you said that God cannot look on sin with favor, but that is just not true. It would take me way too long to post in this all of the verses that say that God is all-powerful. All-powerful means that He can do anything. Anything at all. There is nothing that our God cannot do. So, yes, God can look on sin with favor. Also, in the verse you quote (Habakkuk 1:13) Habakkuk is not stating that God cannot look on sin with favor. He is asking a question. He says (in my version of this verse…) “God, I thought You couldn’t look on sin….so why are you?” So, you see, if you are to say the God cannot look on sin with favor, you are taking this verse out of context.
Now, addressing what you said about how Jesus would not have said something inaccurate just to quote scripture. This is not entirely true. You see, in Jesus’ time, everyone memorized all the old testament. So, the rabbi would say the first line of a passage of scripture, and the people would say the rest of it back to him. This is exactly what Jesus was doing here. Everyone Jew in the crowd was silently reciting the rest of the passage of scripture (Psalm 22) If this doesn’t make sense to you, let me explain it this way: It’s like an inside joke. It isn’t necessarily accurate to what is happening around you, but everyone knows what you’re talking about.
There are also some questions that need to be asked about this. When did Jesus cease being forsaken? Did God just suddenly decide that the sin wasn’t that bad anymore, then come back? That doesn’t make any sense! Also, where does it say in the Bible that Jesus was forsaken? If the only place you can provide me with is when Jesus says on the cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” I have already shown how this does not mean that Jesus was actually forsaken. Also, I have provided you with a verse (Psalm 22:24) that specifically states that Jesus was not forsaken. So, unless you can show me a verse that says, “Jesus was forsaken on the cross” then I am forced not to believe it.
-A thirteen-year-old girl who is a REALLY deep thinker 🙂
John 16:32 32 The hour is coming, indeed it has come, when you will be scattered, every man to his home, and will leave me alone; yet I am not alone, for the Father is with me.
Enough said.
Except that if the Father and Son separate for even one moment, the doctrine of the Trinity is false.
To Cindy: Amen!
To I’m Giving a Speech on This: When you say “All-powerful means that He can do anything. Anything at all. There is nothing that our God cannot do. So, yes, God can look on sin with favor.” This is not true.
He cannot do everything. He cannot go against his nature. He is sinless; therefore He cannot sin. He is The Truth; therefore He cannot lie. He is LOVE; therefore He cannot hate. He can reject, he can disapprove, he can be angry, he can destroy because of that anger, but He cannot hate like we can, He cannot lie like we can…
God does NOT look at sin with favor, but He does see us and our sin. That theme is throughout the Bible. Find an example to the contrary. He sees our sin, he see us in our sin, and He still loves us and calls us to Him and calls us over and over again. Just look at the apostle Paul.
Read my earlier post about how Jesus was preaching from the cross to go and read Psalm 22. Read it in its entirety. It is prophesy of what He was going through on the cross, prophesy about Him being victorious over it as well. “He has done it.” He has completed it. All of it.
Why was He “forsaken?” First, look up the word and all of it nuanced definitions. Why did He “give up something He held dear?” Note that I didn’t say “turn his back on” or “forget” or “reject.” I said “give up” since that is a valid definition of the English word translated from the Greek. Why did God “give up” his dearest son? As Christians, we all know why and we’re grateful for Him doing that for us. He “Gave Up” His one and only son. At that moment, He gave Jesus up, placed every sin, every hurt, every guilt, every shame, every last bit of it; past, present, and future; onto His dearest Son and then gave him over to death; to pay the infinite penalty for our sin.
As you said, Jesus was pointing them to the scripture that captures that.
So in summary: I disagree completely about God’s ability to go against His nature. I disagree that God “rejected” Jesus on the cross. I disagree that God can look on sin with favor. I disagree when someone says that God can’t look on our sin some translations of Habakkuk suggest.
I agree that God loved Jesus at every instant, gave Him up for us, watched every painful moment, and rejoiced at His resurrection. God saw me and my sin before my conversion and He sees me now. He called me to Him while I as yet a sinner and knows my sin. I agree that Jesus poured Himself out for us, He preached His good news at every opportunity, and even while He was on the cross, pointed us to scripture so we could learn who this person was and is, and how He fulfilled prophesy in a singular way that no one else could have done. He Is “God With Us.”
In the process of preparing a sermon for this Sunday, I happened upon this site and read with interest the comments posted. I have not much to add as this topic is discussed at great length and to the point that some minds may consider re-thought and others will choose to remain. The one item I did not see (although I confess that I did not read each and every post at depth) is that God was/is greatly saddened and astonishingly disheartened at the shattered relationship between Himself and His people due to sin – the sin of initial separation which occurred in the Garden of Eden, and the sin which continues to permeate our world and our minds still today. God recognized that no man could accomplish bridging the gap and repairing the relationship separated by God’s own law and character.
God Himself, alone, could provide the atonement and redemption for mankind. In Christ He accomplished this on the cross. In Christ He has made the Way available back into a relationship with Him. It is His love that has saved and will save. Can this be enough?
This passage Ps 22 always seemed like an odd one for it to be THE one that Jesus chose to quote from the cross. I am struck by two things.
(1)We do not assume that God forsook David – even when David says it. We think that this is another of his psalms that start off with how negative the situation feels and finishes with a big wiping of the forehead and a sigh and a big Thank You once again for saving me and your people.
(2)So, I read on. When I read that 24th verse, I can see a reason why this quote is there. Like others, I am convinced that Jesus was saying something significant when he quoted the first part of Ps 22. To me, it seems clear that Jesus is saying that his hanging there on the cross looked like the other side had won. That 24th verse: For He has not despised nor abhored the afflictions of the afflicted: Nor has he hidden His face from him: But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.
I don’t pretent to truly understand the Trinity. I have even more trouble wrapping my little mind around the incarnation of the Word. I do, though, feel comfortable in believing the plain reading of Ps 22:24.
One final thing, I think that the animal sacrifices were always to be the best animals with no blemishes. The animal was sacrifice – not because it deserved to die – but – specifically because it was valuable and “cost” the person dearly to provide it as a sacrifice. I believe that Jesus was a sin sacrifice – not sin on the cross. My 2 cents.
To all: I apologize for the miscommunication 🙂 I did not intend to say that God looked on sin with favor. What I truly meant to say was that God can look on sin with favor, but that because of His holiness and perfection, He does not. Instead, He hates sin and casts it out of His presence.
Again, I am not saying that God tolerates sin and will always tolerate our sin, simply that He is able to. He most certainly will not tolerate our sin when Jesus comes back.
The major point I wish to make here is, in answer to Mr. Lindberg’s question, Yes – God can be around sin. He is around sin constantly, as He is always with us.
Also, really, there is no further reason for anyone to keep saying that God forsook Jesus on the cross. It is obvious that God did not forsake His son on the cross. If any of you are still not convinced, I give you this analysis of the idea:
Point 1: God never changes
Malachi 3:6 I, the Lord, do not change
Point 2: Jesus is God
John 10:30 I and my Father are one
Logical conclusion:
Taking into consideration that God does not change, and that God and Jesus were one at one point in time, we can logically conclude that God did not change from being one with Jesus to not being one with Jesus.
This should make logical sense to you.
If this doesn’t make logical sense to you… another, easier to understand analysis:
Point: God did not forsake Jesus on the cross
Psalm 22:24 For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.
Logical Conclusion:
Taking into consideration that this verse tells us that “he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him…” we can clearly and logically conclude that God did not forsake Jesus on the cross.
If this still doesn’t make logical sense to you, it isn’t absolutely necessary for you to believe this in order to be saved, so it’s okay 🙂
– A now 14-year-old girl who is still a deep thinker 🙂
After reading all of these comments, what a blessing to read such insight by I’mGivingASpeechOnThis. For a 14 year-old young lady to have such an understanding of a tough subject and be able to lay out her thoughts better than most adults is refreshing. To her – think deeply then teach.
Was Jesus God? Didn’t he look at people? Didn’t Jesus say something like if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father and I and the Father are one. And didn’t he constantly point out that people had heard it said but now I tell you,as if to imply maybe they just didn’t quite have the full picture and understanding of God and his heart that they so confidently asserted? For example,Who do you say I am?asked Jesus. Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Hey you pharisees and teachers of the law you study the bible diligently who do say I am .Easy, A false prophet whom we should crucify. Studying the bible diligently can still lead you to some false conclusions. Humility is therefore logical and appropriate.
Not taking sides with anyone here but just wanted to thank everyone for the perspective on this issue. This (God cannot look on sin) is something I’ve wrestled with on a number of occasions and this discussion has provided me with a lot of content to consider.
And I’m impresses with not only the passion of those commenting but also their commitment to study the word and get it right.
When Jesus was dying on the cross, and said, “My God, My God, why has thou forsaken Me?”, He was QUOTING Bible scripture (Psalm 22).
As for God turning His back on His Son, Hebrews 13:5 says “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.”
thanks to all of you my brothers and sisters in Christ for the desire to be biblically correct it shows your deep love for God while we cannot all agree on this subject the one point we all agree on as believers is that JESUS DIED ON THAT CROSS AT CALVERY FOR YOUR SINS AND MINE P.S. WHEN WE GET HOME WITH HIM YOU CAN ASK ALL QUESTIONS YOU LIKE .. LOVE YOUR BROTHER VINNY PROV.3 5-6
2Sa 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
Deu_17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
Deu_31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
Jdg_2:11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:
Jdg_3:7 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and forgat the LORD their God, and served Baalim and the groves.
Jdg_3:12 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the LORD.
Jdg_4:1 And the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, when Ehud was dead.
Jdg_6:1 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years.
Jdg_10:6 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.
Jdg_13:1 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years.
1Sa_15:19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD?
2Sa_12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
1Ki_11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
1Ki_14:22 And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.
1Ki_15:26 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of his father, and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin.
1Ki_15:34 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin.
1Ki_16:7 And also by the hand of the prophet Jehu the son of Hanani came the word of the LORD against Baasha, and against his house, even for all the evil that he did in the sight of the LORD, in provoking him to anger with the work of his hands, in being like the house of Jeroboam; and because he killed him.
1Ki_16:19 For his sins which he sinned in doing evil in the sight of the LORD, in walking in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin which he did, to make Israel to sin.
1Ki_16:30 And Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of the LORD above all that were before him.
1Ki_21:20 And Ahab said to Elijah, Hast thou found me, O mine enemy? And he answered, I have found thee: because thou hast sold thyself to work evil in the sight of the LORD.
1Ki_21:25 But there was none like unto Ahab, which did sell himself to work wickedness in the sight of the LORD, whom Jezebel his wife stirred up.
1Ki_22:52 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of his father, and in the way of his mother, and in the way of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin:
2Ki_3:2 And he wrought evil in the sight of the LORD; but not like his father, and like his mother: for he put away the image of Baal that his father had made.
2Ki_8:18 And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, as did the house of Ahab: for the daughter of Ahab was his wife: and he did evil in the sight of the LORD.
2Ki_8:27 And he walked in the way of the house of Ahab, and did evil in the sight of the LORD, as did the house of Ahab: for he was the son in law of the house of Ahab.
2Ki_13:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, and followed the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, which made Israel to sin; he departed not therefrom.
2Ki_13:11 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD; he departed not from all the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel sin: but he walked therein.
2Ki_14:24 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not from all the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:9 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, as his fathers had done: he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:18 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not all his days from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:24 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:28 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_17:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, but not as the kings of Israel that were before him.
2Ki_17:17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
2Ki_21:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
2Ki_21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
2Ki_21:15 Because they have done that which was evil in my sight, and have provoked me to anger, since the day their fathers came forth out of Egypt, even unto this day.
2Ki_21:16 Moreover Manasseh shed innocent blood very much, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; beside his sin wherewith he made Judah to sin, in doing that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
2Ki_21:20 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, as his father Manasseh did.
2Ki_23:32 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done.
2Ki_23:37 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done.
2Ki_24:3 Surely at the commandment of the LORD came this upon Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did;
2Ki_24:9 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father had done.
2Ki_24:19 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that Jehoiakim had done.
1Ch_2:3 The sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah: which three were born unto him of the daughter of Shua the Canaanitess. And Er, the firstborn of Judah, was evil in the sight of the LORD; and he slew him.
1Ch_22:8 But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.
2Ch_33:2 But did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, like unto the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.
2Ch_33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
2Ch_33:22 But he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, as did Manasseh his father: for Amon sacrificed unto all the carved images which Manasseh his father had made, and served them;
2Ch_36:5 Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD his God.
2Ch_36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
2Ch_36:12 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD his God, and humbled not himself before Jeremiah the prophet speaking from the mouth of the LORD.
Job_15:15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
Job_18:3 Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight?
Job_25:5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
Job_34:26 He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others;
Job_41:9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
Psa_5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psa_9:19 Arise, O LORD; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.
Psa_10:5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
Psa_51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psa_72:14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
Psa_76:7 Thou, even thou, art to be feared: and who may stand in thy sight when once thou art angry?
Psa_116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.
Jer_7:30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
Jer_18:23 Yet, LORD, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay me: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal thus with them in the time of thine anger.
Luk_15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Pro_15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
if you ask me,i would say
der comes a time wen every being in flesh is subjected to the agony of this flesh,
remember the fig tree Jesus cursed,of course he knew it wasnt the fig’s season,come on all things were made through him says John1:1-4, bt hunger was upon his flesh so the bible says.
Remember the prayer of christ ‘…….let this cup pass me by’ that is the prayer from analyzing the suffering,and it comes from the flesh,but the spirit continues ‘…let thy will be done’
up on the cross ‘ Eloi eloi lamech sabach theni’ came up from the flesh in accordance to the prayer made earlier ‘that this cup may pass me by’.. Job2:4 says yea, skin for skin, all that a man has would he give for his life, dats d devil speaking coz he perfectly understood what men would do if der body suffers, christ was nt an exemption, he was in the flesh and he suffered greatly,and hence he made the prayer
pardon the minimal usage of scriptures,we all know the stories,i wanted to be as plain as i could……ray,pls can i knw what you think bout ma contribution it would mean alot to me
I,ve been trying to find the answer to Matt.27: 46 and i am not supprise that so many earthling seem to know the answer to a question Jesus HAD to ask.
Jesus was not asking a question here. He was repeating Psalm 22, to fullfill a propecy I believe and was repeating the mocking from His killers.
“God cannot look upon sin” the Bible clearly says. Does that really mean God cannot physically look at sin? No, I don’t think so. He does look at sin (evil). He had a conversation with Satan (Mr. Evil himself) about Job. (etc). This phrase is emphasizing that God is Holy and has moral perfection. God abhors evil and He will one day separate evil from those who love Him once and for all. Did Jesus say “Father, why have you forsaken me” on the cross? Maybe it is because God hates evil so much he turned His back for those three days. God is in total control but allows Satan to be the ruler of this world (scripture). Jesus came to “take way the sins of the world” for those who will accept the free gift of salvation (the new covenant initiated on the cross). Thank God. Think about this? If Jesus did nothing more for us than just going to the Cross, and of course He provides “providence” daily (another topic), would not He still not be worthy of our obedience.?
Steve, “God cannot look upon sin” is one of the portions of the Bible where translations differ. Most say “God cannot look upon sin with favor”. Psalms and other books frequently say things like “My sin is laid bare before You”.
When Jesus said “Father why have you forsaken me?” He was not asking a question. He was teaching those who were there Iit was in reference to Psalm 22. He koved us so much that He preached from the cross. Psalm 22 is a prophetic psalm about his death and his Lordship after death. Verse 24 even days “but when he cried to Him for help, He heard”.
Yes, I agree with Steve and the Bible. Let’s clarify the question of this post. Is the question “Can God look on sin?” or “Can God look on sin favorably.” Two completely different questions and it causes us as believers to fall into the trap that Paul spoke about to his pastoral disciples-
1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
2Ti_2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Let’s be wise believers as we look at blogs like this and answer the question without adding to it.
I liked a lot of the comments on here, but this one I really liked for the purpose of making me think. In the same line, did God turn his head to all the sacrifices in the Old Testament? That is what I thought about with this comment. Jesus was the sacrifice for the forgiving of sins. I think when you couple this with the thought of Jesus quoting Psalms, there’s a lot of sense to be made. I think sometimes we look too far into scripture and miss the reality in our face:) I think this comment makes us look at the reality and face some tough questions, if we believe God cannot look on sin.
Seems i am on a different stance. Jesus is God come to earth in the flesh. The little baby in the manger was God. Why a birth via a virgin? Just to be a sign? or did this include the creation of a husk – fleshly body – to be inhabited by Yahweh? Since God was sinless from birth, never having sinned in his lifetime adds some credence to emmanuel or God is with us – literally! Therefore God could not separate himself from the body of Jesus regardless of jesus being made sin. God did not shirk from his mission to experience life as we do. In every fashion God experienced all our temptations and trials of life and Jesus did in fact bear our sins. My God, my god etc is jesus voicing the messianic psalm about himself to the crowd below.
God was 100% human in the way that he lived in a flesh and blood human body which allowed God to experience the flesh that He created mankind in. God was 100% God in that he lived in the human body. Whether there is a separate personality aside from God inside the body of jesus, I don’t think there was, I think God was the personality inside jesus as jesus so frequently states, albeit, sometimes in a round about way, but this is more a societal tactic and therefore wise as even saying God was his father was considered blasphemy.
It’s a simple question to a simple answer. Many Christians have their own understanding and relevant answer the way they want to answer it. The truth of the matter is, Jesus was the Word of God. He was literally God in the flesh. Now, flip your bibles to Isaiah 53:10:11. Look at it carefully. This prophesy clearly states that God was pleased to bruise him. Here we go;
Isaiah 53:10; Yet, it pleased The Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of The Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:11; He shall see the trevail of his soul, and be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquity.
QUESTION FOR YOU; Does that sound like God was distained from looking at Jesus on the cross. It says it pleased The Lord to bruise him.
When Jesus said,”why have you forsaken me?” When he was on the cross, God allowed him to use these words, is to show us that Jesus was also a human being and that showing this side of him was important because we sometimes feel like that when we think God has left us. When infact he didn’t. He wanted to show us that out human side of us needs God at the hardest times of life. Darkness came for a while during that time too, but, it wasn’t because we think God looked away. It was because the enemy of our souls and all his principalities, powers and every high thing that wasn’t of God converged on Golgotha to discourage Jesus. When Jesus said,”It is finished.” Jesus conquered and broke the hold of sin for everybody. Referring back to Isaiah 53:10; it states; he shall see his seed, meaning those who will call upon him.
Remember: IT PLEASED THE LORD TO BRUISE
HIM(Jesus)
Let’s reverse the question with Numbers 6:24-26. If God is blessing you, his face is shining upon you and his face is turned toward you. If he turns his face away from you he is not pleased with you. Why? Habakkuk 1:13 and Isaiah 59:2 explain.
FORGIVENESS OF SINS? BY STEVE FINNELL
Did God give mankind manifold options to have their sins forgiven?
The birth of the church of Christ was on the Day of Pentecost. What occurred on that day?
1.The apostle Peter preached Jesus, His death, His burial, and His resurrection. (Acts 2:22-35)
2. Peter stated God had made Jesus both Lord and Christ and that they were responsible for Jesus being crucified.(Acts 2:36)
3. The crowd asked Peter and the rest of the apostles what they should do. (Acts 2:37)
What was Peter’s answer? Keep in mind these men had already believed that Jesus was Savior, Lord, and the Christ.
Did Peter give them this list of choices?
1. Did Peter say, “Repent and say the sinners prayer and you will have your sins forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit?”
2. Did Peter say, “You do not have to do anything thing to be saved, you were saved the very moment you believed, your sins are forgiven?”
3. Did Peter say, “Repent and be baptized because your sins have been forgiven?”
4. Did Peter say, “You were added to the body of Christ the minute you believed, however, in order to join the local church you must be baptized in water?”
5. Did Peter say, “Repent and be baptized as an example to the community?”
6. Did Peter say,”It is written that men are saved by faith only, water baptism is a good work?”
7. Did Peter say, “Water baptism is just an act of obedience, and it has nothing to do with forgiveness of your sins?”
8. Did Peter say, “The thief on cross was not baptized and he was saved; therefore you can have your sins forgiven without being baptized?”
9. Did Peter say, “You have to be baptized in order join a denominational church, however, you can get into heaven by faith only?”
10. WHAT DID PETER SAY? Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(NASB)
The apostle Peter was not offering multiple ways to have sins forgiven.
Faith: John 3:16
Repentance: Acts 2:38
Confession: Romans 10:9-10
Water Baptism: Acts 2:38
ALL ARE ESSENTIAL FOR SALVATION!
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http//:steve-finnell.blogspot.com
This is correct. Psalm 22. But check out verse 24 in Psalm 22 and you’ll see that God did not turn his face from Christ.
This is the best answer ever. He would not be God and It would not be Faith, if for every question we could use human reason and logic to answer with certainty. There are many things we will not know on this earth but they will be revealed in Heaven. Until than, May we in Christ continue to walk in Faith, not by sight, keeping our eye on the commission and the prize. Deep calls uno deep.
Read Isaiah carefully breaux! It does not say God turned away from you but you turned away from Him!!!! Better still read it in the original language before the perversion of churchianity.
I believe my guilt and shame dumped on my Savior at the cross caused Him to not feel His Father’s presence. It doesn’t mean He was abandoned by The Father. It means that for the first time in eternity my Lord felt guilt and shame. Mine; to be exact. When we sin purposely; do we seek God’s presence?
In the garden, in the beginning; Who went looking for who when man fell from grace?
I’m a scum sucking bottom dweller with a Savior Who is Yeshua ha Mashiach! I deserve hell!
Carla knows the Truth. It is apparent to me at least, she has been set free! See you on the other side of time!
Apparently you are discounting the fact (by faith) that God wasn’t present when Adama, fell to the temptation to be his own god. Once again; I reiterate … “Who went looking for who when Adama hid in the garden?”
So, I have a follow-up question.
But first, a point: nowhere in the Bible does it say that God left Jesus on the cross. All we have is bits and pieces that we can use to make a picture that fits what we think – hence the list of comments. So, while I’m not saying you’re wrong when you say that God left Jesus on the cross, I am saying that the Bible doesn’t say that.
Now for the followup questions: why does this matter? Wasn’t it enough that Jesus suffered the way he did and then died? Do we have to make it worse than it was? Is this even possible? Do we have to add some further horrific, unimaginable punishment and therefore add to what Christ did?
Gordy, I believe God can not look at sin and by taking our sins Christ willingly suffered the ultimate death and punishment on the cross, as he had willed and knowingly did. That sin was to feel what sin brings to man who does not repent, the utter devastation of the soul separated from God. This is just my evaluation of the passage, not that I know it to be correct.
the name is grody, with a small “g”; because of John 3:30.
You say this is what you believe; but have no scripture to show me?
Where is the truth in that?
It matters because many people never open a Bible to check to see if the goy in the pulpit is telling the truth or his opinion. If studying my Bible insults maybe I’m on the wrong website.
I can’t put my God in a box! He doesn’t fit! try this for another failure to answer the question.
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/christ-forsaken/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=ligonierministriesblog
All of the following verses, and more, tell us that God sees our sin, iniquity, wickedness, abominations, evil, repentance from evil deeds, etc.-
Gen_6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen_13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
Gen_31:42 Except the God of my father, the God of Abraham, and the fear of Isaac, had been with me, surely thou hadst sent me away now empty. God hath seen mine affliction and the labour of my hands, and rebuked thee yesternight.
Gen_38:7 And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
Exo_3:7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
Exo_3:9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
Exo_3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
Exo_19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto myself.
Num 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;
Num 14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:
Deu_9:13 Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
2Sa 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
Deu_17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
Deu_31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
Jdg_2:11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:
Jdg_3:7 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and forgat the LORD their God, and served Baalim and the groves.
Jdg_3:12 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the LORD.
Jdg_4:1 And the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, when Ehud was dead.
Jdg_6:1 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years.
Jdg_10:6 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.
Jdg_13:1 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years.
1Sa_15:19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD?
2Sa_12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
1Ki_11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
1Ki_14:22 And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.
1Ki_15:26 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of his father, and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin.
1Ki_15:34 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin.
1Ki_16:7 And also by the hand of the prophet Jehu the son of Hanani came the word of the LORD against Baasha, and against his house, even for all the evil that he did in the sight of the LORD, in provoking him to anger with the work of his hands, in being like the house of Jeroboam; and because he killed him.
1Ki_16:19 For his sins which he sinned in doing evil in the sight of the LORD, in walking in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin which he did, to make Israel to sin.
1Ki_16:30 And Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of the LORD above all that were before him.
1Ki_21:20 And Ahab said to Elijah, Hast thou found me, O mine enemy? And he answered, I have found thee: because thou hast sold thyself to work evil in the sight of the LORD.
1Ki_21:25 But there was none like unto Ahab, which did sell himself to work wickedness in the sight of the LORD, whom Jezebel his wife stirred up.
1Ki_22:52 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of his father, and in the way of his mother, and in the way of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin:
2Ki_3:2 And he wrought evil in the sight of the LORD; but not like his father, and like his mother: for he put away the image of Baal that his father had made.
2Ki_8:18 And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, as did the house of Ahab: for the daughter of Ahab was his wife: and he did evil in the sight of the LORD.
2Ki_8:27 And he walked in the way of the house of Ahab, and did evil in the sight of the LORD, as did the house of Ahab: for he was the son in law of the house of Ahab.
2Ki_9:26 Surely I have seen yesterday the blood of Naboth, and the blood of his sons, saith the LORD; and I will requite thee in this plat, saith the LORD. Now therefore take and cast him into the plat of ground, according to the word of the LORD.
2Ki_13:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, and followed the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, which made Israel to sin; he departed not therefrom.
2Ki_13:11 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD; he departed not from all the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel sin: but he walked therein.
2Ki_14:24 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not from all the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:9 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, as his fathers had done: he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:18 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not all his days from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:24 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_15:28 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD: he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin.
2Ki_17:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, but not as the kings of Israel that were before him.
2Ki_17:17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
2Ki_21:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
2Ki_21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
2Ki_21:15 Because they have done that which was evil in my sight, and have provoked me to anger, since the day their fathers came forth out of Egypt, even unto this day.
2Ki_21:16 Moreover Manasseh shed innocent blood very much, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; beside his sin wherewith he made Judah to sin, in doing that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
2Ki_21:20 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, as his father Manasseh did.
2Ki_23:32 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done.
2Ki_23:37 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done.
2Ki_24:3 Surely at the commandment of the LORD came this upon Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did;
2Ki_24:9 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father had done.
2Ki_24:19 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that Jehoiakim had done.
1Ch_2:3 The sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah: which three were born unto him of the daughter of Shua the Canaanitess. And Er, the firstborn of Judah, was evil in the sight of the LORD; and he slew him.
1Ch_22:8 But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.
2Ch_33:2 But did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, like unto the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.
2Ch_33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
2Ch_33:22 But he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, as did Manasseh his father: for Amon sacrificed unto all the carved images which Manasseh his father had made, and served them;
2Ch_36:5 Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD his God.
2Ch_36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
2Ch_36:12 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD his God, and humbled not himself before Jeremiah the prophet speaking from the mouth of the LORD.
Job_11:11 For he knoweth vain men: he seeth wickedness also; will he not then consider it?
Job_15:15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
Job_18:3 Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight?
Job_25:5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
Job_34:26 He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others;
Job_41:9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
Psa_5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psa_9:19 Arise, O LORD; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.
Psa_10:5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
Psa_51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psa_72:14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
Psa_76:7 Thou, even thou, art to be feared: and who may stand in thy sight when once thou art angry?
Psa_116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.
Psa_139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Isa_59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Jer_7:30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
Jer 13:25 This is thy lot, the portion of thy measures from me, saith the LORD; because thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood.
Jer 13:26 Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear.
Jer 13:27 I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?
Jer_16:17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
Jer_18:23 Yet, LORD, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay me: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal thus with them in the time of thine anger.
Eze 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
Eze 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
Eze 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD’S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
Eze 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Eze 8:17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
Eze 8:18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.
Jon_1:2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
Jon_3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Mar 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Pro_15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
Jer 13:27 I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?
Hello??? Is Anybody Using Their Bible???
Gordy…with a capital G….because I am not a Jew.
If I wanted advice from a Jew I would go to a Jewish site.
I don’t not recognize you as important, intelligent nor informed, mostly just annoying.
May Jesus bless and keep you however.
Kat you are correct,god cannot look on sin, he sent his son, Jesus to pay the price for our sins. those that have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour are seen differently. When God looks at his children (those that are saved) he does not see our sin but he sees us through his son who is sin free. Gods loves us so much that he sent his only son to die in our stead, thank God for his love and grace, its by grace that we are saved, not by anything we could ever do, we could never earn it!! God bless you!
Chris, I’ll believe you when you show me scripture to prove your assumption.
Being well acquainted with rejection, I can understand this line of reasoning. But, This is His beloved Son in Whom He is well pleased. I’m just a man and I do not believe I would have left my son up on that tree for me. Maybe, now, just maybe, the pain of looking at His Son; and knowing the multitudes of us that would reject His gift, would be too painful “even” for my God to watch…., But, He loved me “so” much He gave His only begotten Son… I do not believe it will be adequately answered for me until I step from time to eternity.
After 3 days? Just where was “paradise”? Did He not tell the thief next to Him that…”today you will be with Me in Paradise…? For give me; for I know this is not in tune with this treatise.
For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath He hid HIS face from Him…. Psalm 22:24
Same chapter of the 22nd Psalm’s first verse….
Then Gen 4:9 is a lie? how about when Adam and Eve was hiding because of there sin and God went looking for them? hummmm
Answering a question regarding the accuracy of Genesis 3:9 and 4:9. Sometimes God, God’s leaders and my mother would ask questions, not because they didn’t know the answer but to see if the person is willing to be honest and confess guilt. Also see Acts 5:8, Exodus 4:2 and anywhere else in the Bible where people ask a question.
As a side note could I encourage people, if you are really interested in the word of God there are many Downloadable Bible programs that will allow you to do word searches, phrase searches, read commentaries etc. . Let’s stop butchering the word of God, doubting it, and start reading, studying it, and doing it as we are commanded to do.
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Eph_3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Col_4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
1Th_5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
Luk 8:20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
Mat_12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat_12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat_19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat_21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
Mat_21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat_22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Sorry to burst your bubble but God is thrice holy ” Holy Holy, Holy. Is a.6:3 & rev 4:8 and someone who’s is that holy can not be in the presence of sin and there was a total separation of God’s presence from the son. CHRIST’S sacrifice was not enduring the cross but taking on the sin of the world and being separated from his father dead ps 16:10 so there you go CHRIST went to hell but because he had not sinned he did not see corruption. David was expressing (was a shadow of) what messiah would endure. Most of David’s psalms we’re not mearly his suffering but prophetic psalms of messiah no theology just love for God’s word to the point that He himself reveals to us his love for us
Or does the scripture does not state ” that the wages of sin is death”?
Yeshua ha’Mashiach does keep me. He blesses me daily. I am so abundantly blessed, that I can pray for you Kat. I know whom I have believed and know He is able to keep that which I’ve committed unto Him against that day. You are correct in your statement as me being unimportant, and those letters trailing off behind my name mean nothing since higher education didn’t introduce me to Yeshua. His Word did that! If you are born of the Spirit like scripture says; ( and I pray you are), you are grafted in as a child of Avraham, and as an adopted child you cannot be disinherited. The only information I have is His Word, and as of 9/21/15 not one person on this site has given me any scripture where it says God cannot look on sin. I’m not worthy to assume He meant anything other than what is written. When I pass from time to eternity I will know; until then I will trust what I read and what numerous dictionaries tell me words mean. 21 years of practicing anaesthesiology taught me much about the human condition. You are forgiven!
from some of the stuff written here I can only wonder if any of them ever pick up the Word. Matthew 7:23 makes me examine myself daily. It is a scary thought that my Savior wouldn’t know me. Too many trust what the body in a pulpit tell them is truth. I always preface what I say in jails and prisons with …” if you can’t find what I’m saying in the Word of God, I’m a liar!”
I’m wholly unimportant, but my Savior isn’t! He is The King of kings and The Lord of lords. If I have any significance in this life it is because of Him. Praise the Lord! Psalm 150 ….
Dear Grody,
God has blessed you with great wisdom. ………and great meekness and patience.
You have given me what I need to be sure of the truth in my heart. Thank you.
Yes, you are important. God loves you and is using you. I know you don’t need me to tell you this, but I just couldn’t go away silently —- so it is for me, not for you. Just know that you are helping many to understand better. They just go away silently.
To God be all the glory!
Thanks for your kind sentiments. I just am afraid to attribute anything to my God that I can’t find written in His Word in any or all translations. I’m learning paleo-Hebrew to understand the original writings and won’t need all the thoughts of other men. It isn’t they who will stand before my Father on that day. I always tell the men I minister to that if you cannot find what I’m saying in the Bible then I’m a liar! Sure I understand that many “so-caled” scholars decided what I should and shouldn’t read in the Bible. I have found that every book they have chosen to not include have helped me in my understanding of the Bible today. I would suggest anyone interested in knowing God; besides judging the cause of the poor and needy, to find and read al the “lost” books they can find … especially Jasher!
Too mold to answer, and too ludicrous to contemplate. Matthew 7:23 makes me wonder how really deluded we can become to actually stand before God and believe we have done many wonderful things in His name; just to hear Him say; “depart from Me, I “never” knew you. This scares me to the point I stopped asking people if they knew Jesus. I ask them now if He knows them! Paul warns us to examine ourselves to see where we stand. This is a full time profession in me. I’m responsible to Him for every person I encountered as I walked this pilgrimage. Did they see Jesus in me? Did I tell them about my Savior? How many will point their finger at me as they are cast into the lake of fire and cry out…”You never told me” … Today I ask myself…”Does He know me?” And yes I’ve felt like David sometimes crying out …”My God, my God; why have You forsaken me?” … only to be reminded later that He didn’t abandon me. In fact I took Him to places I’m embarrassed to tell you about here, and He went with me, because He is faithful even when I ain’t!
Thank you Cody! Your answer has helped me tremendously!
Good day.
I strongly believe that whoever sins or in the case of Jesus our Lord carries sin can’t stand before God.
Let’s go back to the beginning where sin started in Genesis chapter 3…when God came into the garden of Eden to fellowship with man, man hid himself because he was naked right? But really, can a man hide from God? If u read chapter 2 of Genesis you’ll understand that it’s God who created the garden of Eden and PLACED man in it. Imagine Toyota as a company, they create cars right? Now if they were being asked to tell about the interior parts of the car, will there be need for them to open the car and check before they tell? It will look as if they stole it, won’t it? That’s how it was in d garden. And need i remind us that THE EARTH IS OF D LORD AND THE FULLNESS THEREOF. When man ate the fruit, the countenance of God left him making him mortal, that’s why humans die…the Bible recorded that when God breath into man, man became a LIVING SOUL not a HUMAN BEING. Now, after man ate the fruit God couldn’t see him anymore that’s why He asked “ADAM, WHERE ARE YOU?” And need you know that Adam never told God he ate the fruit but God knew, Adam only said he heard God coming and hid himself because he was naked which means he was covered with sin. Now God din’t turn His back on Jesus UNTIL He {Jesus} took the sin of the world on Him. Note that before then, Jesus would pray and receive instant response. Again remember that while Jesus was being baptised, God came down in form of a DOVE and then said “THIS IS MY SON IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED…” and then did Jesus have the power to do all He did. The Spirit of God lives in every sinner thats why at a point in a man’s life he repents…that Spirit of God that lives in man was once the image man took but sin which is the devils spirit covered and took control of man making him mortal and able to die. As it is writen “DEATH COULDN’T HOLD THE BODY OF JESUS…” because Jesus is a supreme being. Think now…a man has a child who left the house to play outside and played so much that he got so dirty and covered with all manner of dirt, do u think the father would be happy seeing his son covered in such dirt? That is how sin is.
God Bless…
Eze Emeka Daniel
from Nigeria
Why Did Jesus Cry, “My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?”
Matthew 27
Code: BQ032913
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” And some of those who were standing there, when they heard it, began saying, “This man is calling for Elijah.” (27:46–47)
A second miracle occurred at about the ninth hour, or three o’clock in the afternoon, through an inexplicable event that might be called sovereign departure, as somehow God was separated from God.
At that time Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” As Matthew explains, the Hebrew Eli (Mark uses the Aramaic form, “Eloi,” 15:34) means, My God, and lama sabachthani means, Why hast Thou forsaken Me?
Because Jesus was quoting the well-known Psalm 22, there could have been little doubt in the minds of those who were standing there as to what Jesus was saying. They had been taunting Him with His claim to be God’s Son (v. 43), and an appeal for divine help would have been expected. Their saying, “This man is calling for Elijah,” was not conjecture about what He said but was simply an extension of their cruel, cynical mockery.
In this unique and strange miracle, Jesus was crying out in anguish because of the separation He now experienced from His heavenly Father for the first and only time in all of eternity. It is the only time of which we have record that Jesus did not address God as Father. Because the Son had taken sin upon Himself, the Father turned His back. That mystery is so great and imponderable that it is not surprising that Martin Luther is said to have gone into seclusion for a long time trying to understand it and came away as confused as when he began. In some way and by some means, in the secrets of divine sovereignty and omnipotence, the God-Man was separated from God for a brief time at Calvary, as the furious wrath of the Father was poured out on the sinless Son, who in matchless grace became sin for those who believe in Him.
Habakkuk declared of God, “Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor” (Hab. 1:13). God turned His back when Jesus was on the cross because He could not look upon sin, even-or perhaps especially-in His own Son. Just as Jesus loudly lamented, God the Father had indeed forsaken Him.
Jesus did not die as a martyr to a righteous cause or simply as an innocent man wrongly accused and condemned. Nor, as some suggest, did He die as a heroic gesture against man’s inhumanity to man. The Father could have looked favorably on such selfless deaths as those. But because Jesus died as a substitute sacrifice for the sins of the world, the righteous heavenly Father had to judge Him fully according to that sin.
The Father forsook the Son because the Son took upon Himself “our transgressions, … our iniquities” (Isa. 53:5). Jesus “was delivered up because of our transgression” (Rom. 4:25) and “died for our sins according to the Scriptures” (1 Cor. 15:3). He “who knew no sin [became] sin on our behalf” (2 Cor. 5:21) and became “a curse for us” (Gal. 3:13). “He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross” (1 Pet. 2:24), “died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust” (1 Pet. 3:18), and became “the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 4:10).
Jesus Christ not only bore man’s sin but actually became sin on mares behalf, in order that those who believe in Him might be saved from the penalty of their sin. Jesus came to teach men perfectly about God and to be a perfect example of God’s holiness and righteousness. But, as He Himself declared, the supreme reason for His coming to earth was not to teach or to be an example but “to give His life a ransom for many” (Matt. 20:28).
When Christ was forsaken by the Father, their separation was not one of nature, essence, or substance. Christ did not in any sense or degree cease to exist as God or as a member of the Trinity. He did not cease to be the Son, any more than a child who sins severely against his human father ceases to be his child. But Jesus did for a while cease to know the intimacy of fellowship with His heavenly Father, just as a disobedient child ceases for a while to have intimate, normal, loving fellowship with his human father.
By the incarnation itself there already had been a partial separation. Because Jesus had been separated from His divine glory and from face-to-face communication with the Father, refusing to hold on to those divine privileges for His own sake (Phil 2:6), He prayed to the Father in the presence of His disciples, “Glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was” (John 17:5). At the cross His separation from the Father became immeasurably more profound than the humbling incarnation during the thirty-three years of His earthly life.
As already mentioned, the mystery of that separation is far too deep even for the most mature believer to fathom. But God has revealed the basic truth of it for us to accept and to understand to the limit of our ability under the illumination of His Spirit. And nowhere in Scripture can we behold the reality of Jesus’ sacrificial death and the anguish of His separation from His Father more clearly and penetratingly than in His suffering on the cross because of sin. In the midst of being willingly engulfed in our sins and the sins of all men of all time, He writhed in anguish not from the lacerations on His back or the thorns that still pierced His head or the nails that held Him to the cross but from the incomparably painful loss of fellowship with His heavenly Father that His becoming sin for us had brought.
Available online at: http://www.gty.org/resources/bible-qna/BQ032913
COPYRIGHT ©2016 Grace to You
everyone that thinks God cannot look upon sin quotes verses that they think support their premise. I’ve explained my reasoning, and all I’ve ever asked for were scriptures supporting your idea God cannot look upon sin. I would be very careful about adding things to scripture that it doesn’t say. Yohanon quite eloquently curses those foolish enough to do so. I let the I Am remain I Am and will not try to place Him in a box of my choosing. He is my creator! I am His creature, and a chosen one at that. May the Lord God of all that we can see and cannot see have mercy on your stiff neck. Exodus 32:9
Does holy mean different? My God is the Most Magnificent “Other”; because my finite mind has no adequate words with which to describe Him … borrowed from Brennan Manning with the greatest of respect who now knows Truth face to face.
If SM Lockridge can’t adequately describe Him … how can I … this lowest of the low, the chief of sinners …
I believe that Jesus suffered for all the sins of mankind on the cross and also He felt all the emotions that we human feel in this sinful world. There was only one emotion left for him to feel that many will feel when jesus comes back to receive His righteous people. That is the separation from God. Jesus came to bring us back to the relationship we had in the beginningl
I don’t believe God cannot look on sin.
Being in the presence of sin is not a problem for God. If you look at this verse Habakkuk 1:13 in 3 different ways: in context, in the Hebrew it was written in, and against the rest of the Bible, I think you will see very clearly that this verse does not mean that God cannot look on evil / sin. Here is (Hab 1:13) in 3 different translations:
(KJV) Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
(NIV) Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrongdoing. Why then do you tolerate the treacherous? Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?
(NASB) “Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You can not look on wickedness WITH FAVOR. Why do You look WITH FAVOR On those who deal treacherously? Why are You silent when the wicked swallow up Those more righteous than they?”
(caps emphasis mine)
First, let’s look at this verse in context. Most who quote this verse stop after the first sentence. However, the rest of the verse is crucial to explaining what Habakkuk is saying. Let me paraphrase this verse in a way that might make it more clear. “God, your eyes are too pure to look favorably at evil or wickedness. So, how can you sit silently and watch the wicked swallowing up a people more righteous than them and do nothing about it?”
Do you see why you cannot stop at the first sentence? Habakkuk is clearly not making a statement that “It is impossible for God look at evil / sin.”
Secondly, the Hebrew word for “look on” is “nabat.” Strong’s gives this definition: “look intently at; by impl to regard with pleasure, favor, or care.” This is why the (NASB) version adds the words “with favor” in it’s translation. By carrying out this Hebrew word to it’s fuller meaning, it is made very clear that Habakkuk did not intend to say “God cannot look upon evil / sin,” but rather, “God cannot look FAVORABLY upon evil / sin.”
Finally, the Bible clearly shows us that God sees EVERYTHING on this planet, including evil and sin (Prov 15:3)(Job 34:21-22)(Amos 9:8), because He is omnipresent (everywhere at once) (1 Kin 8:27)(Ps 139:7-8)(Jer 23:23-24)(2 Chr 16:9). In addition, God is shown throughout the Bible to judge the sin and evil He has seen (Heb 4:13)(Ps 90:8). In the first 19 chapters of Genesis we see 3 powerful examples of this. God saw Cain murder his brother Abel (the first murder in the Bible) and punished him for it (Gen 4:8-15). God destroyed the whole Earth in a flood because He saw the evil of man (Gen ch. 6-9). God destroyed the cites of Sodom and Gomorrah because He saw their evil (Gen 19:12-25). So, God clearly sees evil and sin and judges it.
This is why Jesus had to come and give His life for the sins of all men. God has seen every sin we have committed, big and small, and “the wages of (our) sin is death.” We are condemned for all eternity because of our sin. But, through God’s grace and mercy, we can be forgiven of our sins. God has given us the gift of “eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Rom 6:23).
thank you for taking the time to address this issue. Every pesach service I ever attended had fools in the pulpit of deceived Christian congregations telling the “innocent” lambs that refuse to study God’s Word for themselves; how God had to turn His back on His Own Son because He couldn’t look on sin. Every time I’ve asked them about it they dismiss me (in their limited minds) as a trouble maker. I thank you! Blessed are You O Lord my God Who raises up men that will speak Your truth exactly as You wrote it!
You have to understand the powers of the trinity to understand
This scripture has nothing to with Jesus. God is saying that for those who are not saved. Once a person is saved they are covered in his mercy and grace through repentances. God can look upon sin there is no scripture to validate otherwise. I have pondered on the from time to time. Jesus was sent to die on the cross and according to Isaiah 53:9-11 It pleased the father to do this. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. In addition to this Jesus had to say these words, “My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me?” this was prophecy and these words validated what the old testament stated he would come and say. The prophecy was fulfilled the moment Jesus said those words. God was looking right at him and kept saying this is my beloved son in whom I am welled please. People has to understand God he made evil and good for his purpose.
I fall in the middle on this and like what NASB states for the first part of Habakkuk 1:13 “Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You can not look on wickedness with favor.” As other scripture has already been given to support, — yes God can look upon sin and the sinner, HOWEVER its just that sin/evil is not compatible with God and it separates us from him (thus the reason Christ died on the cross). As Habakkuk 1:13 says He has DOES NOT LOOK UPON SIN with any favor or approval. “We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.” (John 9:31). God’s ultimate will is that we repent or have a change of mind to come to Christ (salvation) so that we will no longer be slaves to sin (crucify the old man) and obtain a growing intimate relationship with him”.
I really do not want to get into a squabble here.I would love God regardless and that means I have to love his people, whether they are argumentative or not. I will try to give an interpretation even though I do not Know what God[ Almighty God will or will not do for certain,but in the beginning God said Let US do this and Let US do that and it was good. Maybe He chooses to let the third part of the Trinity look for Him and that would be God the Holy spirit walking in the Garden? Regardless He did not turn His love away. My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. I hope this helps regardless of your answers I love you all.
And again I do agree with most of what was said but have to back up on that disobedient child line because from the beginning Jesus made it very clear that he came to do ONLY the Fathers will and it was the fathers will that he take the sin of the world upon himself or he would not have said Never the less not my will but Thy will be done. I love you all.God bless.
if God doesn’t hear a sinner’s prayer what have I been leading all these incarcerated brothers of mine in when they accept His forgiveness and pray to receive Jesus the Christ in their hearts? Did not Jesus say the one man that prayed a prayer that was heard was the penitent sinner crying, “Lord be merciful to me a sinner.” …
I don’t want to mislead anyone on this subject; if God allowed His Son to take on my punishment and humiliation, He MUST really hate sin (disobedience for us simple folk) or He would have at least let His Son slide maybe just a little. The mystery is why He loved me that much?
In the relationship Jesus had with His Father He had never before experienced quilt and shame. The moment God laid my sin on Him He got a heavy dose of both, and you and I KNOW YOU CAN’T FEEL God’s presence in the presence of guilt and shame:
forgive my typos … I’m crippled and in bed.
God was not looking at them during they’re disobedience but after. God does not no need to look in order to know. That is why He is omniscient. Jesus took upon Him the sins such as was transferred upon the sin sacrafice. Habakkuk 1:13 tells us “Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst look upon iniquity.”
Habakkuk 1:13 “Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity.” I believe that is the verse your looking for.
Sorry long day. That was supposed to be ” God does not need to look…: and “canst not look upon iniquity.” Thank you and God Bless.
you’ve come the closest to cause me to seek whether He does or doesn’t look. He is my Enigma, my God that is so much greater than my comprehension.
Awesome ! YAH BLESS sister !
sin from what I read separates us from God. It does NOT separate God from us!
I find more people read into the Bible instead of reading the Bible. It is the living Word of God that has changed me. Praise Him that I can’t change Him ,,, The Living Word!
God sees everything he cannot look on sin with approval. Sins can’t be bagged in a bag and placed somewhere. God reckoned our sins to Christs account just like Jesus‘s righteousness is imputed to all who trust in Him. The law states cursed is every man that hangs on a tree. Jesus hung on the tree and his blood was shed and the blood is enough praise God. Also I can’t find anywhere in scripture where God poured his wrath out on his son. The people described in The prophecy of Isaiah 53 looked at him and esteemed him stricken smitten of God but that doesn’t mean that he was. Again I say the blood is enough and to prove that God accepted that sacrifice he raised him from the dead on the third day praise His Holy name.
Quite a foundation for denial of the kingdom to someone there Steve. It does not take long for us to shove Jesus to the side and forget about His stinking butt as soon as we get our hands on some good reason to become condemnational ass wipes so we can parade our crap l8ike we have a place in heaven and YOU DON’T YOU LOWLY PIECE OF DOG POOP YOU did not get things done the way they are supposed to be donje you are OUT! Reminds me of these fine Christians who come up with that baloney Oh I cannot make a cake for your wedding because my faith prevents me I am Christian and you are two men getting married. derrrrr where does it tell us this??????/ Oh yeah, that is in the second book of opinioins chapter yada yada yada/ You know I love to ask people who seem so good at telkling other people here is what it is, I ask them, do you understand the parable of the soils? Usually I am tokld look buddy Jesus explains it right there …no, no He does not give the understanding, He gives an explanation. They are not the same, and I would ask you the question Steve in fact I would ask if you even hold what we are told Jesus Himself told us as that important at all, you see, what you have done is search for and find something that you can run with a particular statement that you want to make the doctrine of salvation, BUTT, Steve, I am sorry to say this, you do not have that calling and you do not have that authority, butt you are not alone, because most of what I see here in this place of mental masturbation is the fruitless explosion of LOOK AT WHAT I KNOW yet, what is this for a heroin addict who is caught up and wanting it to end but there are no treatment places for her, and those pastors she talked to just made her feel worse, she thought that there was somne kind of way that a GOD ALMIGHTY wasw above and beyond all these things, but she has never seen that in CHRISTIANS only bickering, show off manshuip, division into so many pieces that the body of Christ in America is a weak sick divided bucket of puke that cannot even handkle a simple what do I have to do to be saved. YOU ALL make me want to puke, and for tghose who are using epic ink on what really happened on the cross did teh Father turn away etcd remember God cannot deny Himself, forgive my typos,
God cannot deny Himself. I am afraid we cannot change what we have been told, no matter how excited we get about a thought we have. We cannot transfer our agenda to the Bible. The bible is not a reference book for us, it is our deference book, that is just the way it is. When we think something that is not in line of what we are told then we have started down a different pathway, and we cannot do that. We do not have to explain these things, but God did not forsake God.
2 Timothy 2:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
A few thoughts for your consideration. When you look up the Greek word for forsake, #1459 in the Strongs Concordance, it says “to leave behind in some place”; “let remain over”, or to desert, forsake or leave”. Is it possible that Jesus was saying to the Father, “Father, why have you allowed me to remain in this state, why are you allowing this sin to remain on me, is it not enough?” The scripture says that Jesus cried this at the ninth hour. So it must have been immediately after his cry that he looked at the Father and the Father said, “Yes, My son, it is finished.” Then Jesus cried “It is finished.” and yielded up his spirit at the ninth hour.
“Except that if the Father and Son separate for even one moment, the doctrine of the Trinity is false. ”
what is the proof that this would be the case.
we know all three:
have always been
are Omnipresence
are Omniscience
are Omnipotence
are Immutable
what do mean by separate, their essence. All three are GOD
If the Father cant bear for a moment to look on the Son because of all the sins he represents at that moment do you consider that some degree of separation?
Most of you are diminishing the work on the cross, and you must be very careful about that, Satan loves when Christians do that. The answer is in the garden of Gethsemane Matthew 26:38 (NIV) 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Jesus is telling his disciples the anxiety that he is experiencing is killing him, so much so he was sweating blood and tears. What was he anxious about? Was it his mere physical death? Look at Stephen’s death experience he welcomed it seeing Christ standing in heaven. Look at Peter’s death he told his executors crucify me upside down. What about the Christians over history that went to their deaths praising God? Are you saying Jesus had less courage or faith, or was his death more meaningful? Did Jesus actually experience what sinful man should experience when we die, separation from God? Isn’t that the whole purpose of Christ death on the cross, not to just die a mortal life but to die spiritually as Adam died in the garden. When you take away Christ’s work on the cross you diminish his suffering for us. Paul calls redemption a mystery a plot the Father had to foil Satan. 1 Corinthians 2:8 (NIV) None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Jesus was not sweating blood and tears at the point of death because he feared mere mortal death. His fear for the first time in eternity was separation from God the Father. My God My God why has thou forsaken me, Jesus not just quoting scripture and not just fulfilling this prophecy HE LIVED IT AND DIED IT. Once God forsook him he was Satan’s, if he was still spiritually alive Satan would not and could not have touched him.
That was awesome.me too just a rotten sinner saved by grace